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The Film Nuts Podcast
Your host Taylor D. Adams talks to artists, musicians, writers and others about their favorite films and shows, and asks them to share how they have been inspired or affected. Hopefully we can get to the root of why we love what we watch, why we’re crazy about a movie or *nuts* about a show…get it?
The Film Nuts Podcast
ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND with Amy Ellis
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What if you could erase the memory of a painful breakup? Would you do it? On the season four finale of The Film Nuts Podcast, I sit down with photographer Amy Ellis to discuss the unforgettable film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and its profound influence on her life and career. Amy shares how the film shaped her teenage years and inspired her journey into photography, where she now dedicates her work to preserving memories. We explore the movie's unique storytelling and emotional depth, contrasting it with Amy's mission to capture and immortalize cherished moments, especially during times of loss.
We dive into the ethical questions and emotional complexities presented in the film, contemplating whether erasing the pain of lost love is worth the cost of losing treasured memories. Our conversation shifts from the film's narrative choices to personal anecdotes about grief, love, and the irreplaceable value of memories. Amy's insights as a photographer bring a rich layer to our discussion, highlighting how photography can help us hold onto the moments that define our lives, even amid sorrow.
Finally, we reflect on the messy, unpolished portrayal of love in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and how it resonates with the authenticity Amy strives for in her work. From examining complex characters to discussing societal expectations around relationships, we cover it all. We also ponder modern issues like virtual catfishing, making connections to the film's themes. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that blends film analysis with the broader importance of memory, love, and personal growth.
Notes:
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Hi, I'm sorry, I just said hi, hi, hello, hi. Okay, if I sit closer, how far are you going? Uh, rockville Center Get out Me too. Really.
Amy Ellis:What are the odds?
Taylor D. Adams:Do I know you. What are the odds?
Amy Ellis:Do I know you? Do you ever shop at Barnes and Noble? It's unlike any movie you've ever seen. It's low budget but high impact, both visually and mentally. It had a huge impact on me becoming an adult or as a teenager, Just the way that it showed visually how you can look at memories and just the process of forgetting memories or just thinking back to what they used to be.
Taylor D. Adams:Hi, I'm Taylor and welcome to the season four finale of the Film Nuts podcast, a show about why we love what we watch. I'm so glad you've been on this journey with me and, if you're actually new to the podcast, we've got over 50 episodes that you can go listen to right now. If you enjoy this one. For today's episode, let's talk about. Wait, what are we talking about? Sorry, I forget shit all the time. Sometimes I even forget to upload these episodes on time. I don't know if it's just my occasional scatterbrained nature or what, but I'm fairly certain it's not because I've had any particular procedure done. At least, I don't think so.
Taylor D. Adams:Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, starring Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet, is a story about two lovers who erase each other from their memories. It's funny and emotional and poses a lot of interesting questions on the nature of relationships, a central one of them being do the bad experiences we have justify the elimination of the good ones, which is a great topic of discussion for my guest today. Amy Ellis is a photographer who defines her job as capturing memories, so you can see how it makes sense that Eternal Sunshine of the Spinal's Mind would be a film of interest to her. Along with being a talented photographer, amy is also one of my partner Nicole's best friends, so we've known each other for over a decade. In our fun chat, amy and I talk about the messiness of relationships, our fear of losing memory and, of course, kate Winslet's hair color.
Taylor D. Adams:No need to schedule an appointment, because right now here's Amy Ellis talking about eternal sunshine of the spotless mind on the season four finale of the film. That's podcast. I don't think we've known each other for a long time, but I don't think I've ever asked you like what actually got you first interested in photography um, my brother when I was a freshman in high school.
Amy Ellis:He was a senior and he took the high school film class and by film I mean like film photo, right um. So our high school had a dark room and I ended up taking that after seeing him take some really awesome film photos from the grand canyon they actually went on a field trip and I really wanted to go to the grand canyon the next year and they canceled it and I was really sad jerks yeah, but um, I got into it from there so I've been doing it for a long time and I was hooked and I was really sad Jerks, yeah, but I got into it from there.
Amy Ellis:So I've been doing it for a long time and I was hooked and I was like, well, I don't want to do anything else, so I will just figure out a way to make money with this.
Taylor D. Adams:What was it about that process that you liked so much?
Amy Ellis:Well, not that I really shoot film anymore Well, not that I really shoot film anymore but I feel like it's a high value job if you can make it work Like I'm someone who preserves memories and pictures of people, which is a pretty valuable thing, if you ask me.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah so.
Amy Ellis:I feel like I am contributing to society and personal lives in a really nice way and I think I noticed that taking pictures of my family and friends in high school.
Taylor D. Adams:Right, so you started taking the pictures, and then you began to realize the importance of that action?
Amy Ellis:Yeah, and that was before Instagram and all the aesthetic.
Taylor D. Adams:So when you realized that you kind of enjoyed this process of preserving memory, realize that you kind of enjoyed this process of preserve, preserving memory. But when you told me that you wanted to talk about eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, I was like this kind of this makes sense. But also the opposite but also it's the opposite of what makes sense for this. So why? Why did you want to talk about this movie?
Amy Ellis:um, it was. It had a huge impact on me becoming an adult or as a teenager, because it came out when I was 14. And I remember, once it came out, just the way that it showed visually how you can look at memories and just the process of forgetting memories or just thinking back to what they used to be. It was just a beautiful thing. I could die right now, glenn, I'm just happy.
Taylor D. Adams:I've never felt that before. I'm just exactly where I want to be.
Amy Ellis:Glenn.
Taylor D. Adams:We're going off. I'll give you a sign.
Amy Ellis:I'm gonna call it off. Can you hear me? I don't want this anymore. I'm gonna call it off and I would be in my art class and just like pop in the soundtrack and just paint, you know, and I mean, and in the dark room too, and it was just. It had a huge effect on me and it was just a beautiful story and it was a movie unlike anything I'd ever seen. And I can still say that to this day, because there's really nothing like it.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, I was noticing that, cause I I don't think I seen it since probably college, like not when it came out, but you know, on the rent from blockbuster or something like that, or like one of my, one of my college roommates owned it. So this most recent time watching it it's one of Nicole's favorite movies too and she was totally down to rewatch it for this and I was watching it I was like I forget that it's a. It's a science fiction movie and the way that it conveys sci-fi is so like grounded, like it doesn't do anything like over the top or crazy with the special effects or like CGI or anything like that. Like everything, like the act of memories disappearing is showcased by just like lights going out and stuff, which I think is super cool and a really like grounded, raw way to kind of convey that idea yeah, I agree I also.
Amy Ellis:I feel like in my mind how, when, like in scenes where they go back to revisit memories that have already been erased, or like hiding in different memories. In my mind that's probably what it's like, how your brain is working. So I love it. It doesn't feel sci-fi at all.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah yeah that totally makes sense to me do you remember the first time you saw this? What, who were you with? Where were you? What was kind of going on in your life? You said you saw it as like a 14 year old yeah, I think I was 14 um I don't think I saw it in theaters.
Amy Ellis:I'm pretty sure it was like a I don't know about blockbuster, maybe like a netflix dvd okay via mail okay um miss those days yeah, me too it was always fun yeah, it was very exciting getting in the mail. Um, I thought maybe it would be with nicole, but I'm honestly not sure. And I asked her just a second ago and she said she didn't think we'd seen it together.
Taylor D. Adams:Okay, Well, she was convinced that her and I went and saw where the wild things are in the movie theater and I looked I was like no, we didn't. But she was convinced and I looked it up and the movie came out before we were dating. So I was like no, sorry you're wrong. She's like who would I go to the movies to? Like you've dated other people. Oh, she's just erased those people. I know exactly. She went through the process. She called uh what?
Taylor D. Adams:the hell's the name of the thing, uh, lacuna, yeah, she called lacuna and was like I need to erase everyone but my boyfriend, my boyfriend, um, so what's interesting is, like to me, eternal sunshine of the spot was fine, just that name. Not knowing what it's about, I automatically think it's like the most pretentious thing I've ever heard of. Yeah, but like but. But it's because I know nothing about the movie and also I had a kind of a hesitancy toward this movie because everybody that I knew in college that loved this movie movie, excuse me was like in the uh, indie, uh, hipster, you know, artistic, not to say that anything that is wrong, but that wasn't my vibe. So I was very hesitant to watch this or really appreciate it. Um, but watching that was like no, this movie rules, uh, but with with that title like to you it's from a longer poem by alexander pope, but the title itself for this movie. What does that mean to you?
Amy Ellis:well, it's funny you mentioned the whole uh like indie vibe, because when I was in high school that's who I wanted to be. That was who I truly was striving to be, and so I also think when you're like 14 or 15, at least, I was someone who was starting to read books that actually had a little philosophy in them, and so I was suddenly like I want to be a deep person, but when you're 15, you're not as deep as you think you are.
Amy Ellis:So, when I heard Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless mind, I was like I don't know what that means, but I have to watch it gets to people going yeah, you're like this sounds ridiculous. I'm in. Yeah, it's clearly deep, it's there's something right right, yeah, so I don't know. Now, I guess, in a way I see it as like ignorance is bliss and I forget the whole.
Amy Ellis:um quote that from the movie, including the movie title. But it's beautiful, but I don't know if I could quite like break down. I think I want to like know the whole poem.
Taylor D. Adams:It's a very long poem.
Amy Ellis:Oh, it is.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, it's very long oh okay, it's very long and that's just just a couple lines.
Amy Ellis:The lines that Kirsten Dunst says is like four lines the quote goes how happy is the blameless vessel's lot, the world forgetting by the world forgot Eternal sunshine of a spotless mind. Each prayer accepted and each wish resigned. I wanna be a great big, huge elephant With a huge trunk like that.
Taylor D. Adams:One more time. It is very much about kind of, yeah, ignorance is not, ignorance is bliss, bliss, but something along the lines of how, like pivoting that toward like innocence. Yeah, it's, it's interesting, and there's a whole like. I could go on. It's like the whole backstory of like why alexander pope wrote that poem and all this other stuff. But people can go look that stuff up because it's way more highbrow than I'm capable of understanding. So I do have to ask you this though Would you ever erase anything or anybody from your memory?
Amy Ellis:No, but I also realize I'm saying that as someone with a fairly privileged life and, yes, I've gone through bad things, but like I feel like I have come on the other side in a very good way. But again, I know that there are other people out there that would be like that's because you've got to your life's just fine, which it probably is.
Taylor D. Adams:What about you? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, yeah, anything that I could potentially see is maybe something that'd be nice to never think about again. I'd be like, okay, but it was so minuscule that I rarely think about it anyway. Yeah.
Amy Ellis:Like a middle school embarrassment that like shows back up in your mind at 10 o'clock when you're trying to go to sleep.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah.
Amy Ellis:That would be great. You know a person not so much.
Taylor D. Adams:What kind of middle school embarrassment comes up for you? I don't want to talk about it. Well, I think the the the another question to go along with that kind of thought is, especially with this movie, with the characters that go through these, this procedure with Lacuna, not even the main characters, like, is the pain that is experienced worth the love? Basically?
Amy Ellis:Well, it's interesting you ask that question Because my partner and I, when I watched it, just to revamp my memory, he went on a deep dive and found a fact that was basically saying saying they originally planned to include a few other you know, very minor characters like extras, showing them, um, also at lacuna to get their memories erased. And it was a I think it was a sexual assault victim and a veteran who wanted to forget his friends from war like he had lost. And they ended up taking it out because they realized that it would suddenly become a much bigger discussion and not focus on the love story that they're trying to tell yeah which I feel like if that's their goal, then they did a great job and it was wise to not take it out.
Amy Ellis:But that really does open up doors for like whole other discussions, because they show a woman in the waiting room with like a box full of things, trying to forget her dog and I'm like, as you know, my cat just died and it was terrible and I'm sad, but I would never want to forget any like moment with him so like you're grieving, but usually grieving just means that you love that person or that animal yeah, so to me when it comes to that situation.
Amy Ellis:I never would, but I also don't want to speak for somebody else.
Taylor D. Adams:I don't know yeah, I think for the movie itself it handles by keeping it focused, it makes it like a good, effective, enjoyable movie to watch, yeah, um, but to have like. But on the outskirts are all these things, are all these like hints of people that have gone through this without actually like going into detail their whole backstory, which I don't think you need to Like the woman in the waiting room with the box full of her dog stuff, I'm like, ok, she's in the waiting room, you understand exactly what she's doing there. Yeah, and then the fact, too, when we just every time we see just a bunch of files, we're like, oh, a bunch of people have thought about doing this and have gone through this whole thing, and I think there was like one throwaway line of a woman calling in to like get the procedure done, and Kirsten Dunst is like it's only been three weeks since your last one, we can't do that, which I'm like oof that's tough Um so beyond kind of well.
Taylor D. Adams:no, actually, when you're thinking about what you do as a photographer and the fact that you are preserving memories like no-transcript.
Amy Ellis:Oh, I don't know Um, it sounds kind of morbid to say, but, like, since we were already talking about the grieving aspect of losing people, I have had multiple people throughout the years cause I've been doing this for over 10 years now who will reach out to me when they have a parent die or a grandparent die or someone really close in their family, and they say thank you so much for these photos, like they're the best photos we have of them and we look at them daily and like we really treasure them. So I usually get thank yous during, like, the hardest parts of people's lives. So it's terrible news for me to receive, but it also is this validation of like you're doing something good and meaningful for other people. So, yeah, it's kind of kind of a weird way to feel valued, but it's still important is that I mean not to dig on the morbidness of this, but oh, I love going morbid.
Amy Ellis:We can get so morbid but is that that's?
Taylor D. Adams:is that a different feeling than taking beautiful pictures at somebody's wedding and handing them to them?
Amy Ellis:No, I mean, I think, being able to also give people physical evidence of like, look at this love that you have, especially in this season of your life. You never want to forget this. That is also just as meaningful. Never want to forget this, that is also just as meaningful. Um, yeah, I guess it's funny because I probably have become, I guess, less sensitive to that.
Taylor D. Adams:Just because I do it so much, I don't think about it as much as I do when people reach out as like thank yous otherwise but yeah, so like when you meet with just a potential person you're going to be working with to photograph either a family portrait or an event they're having, or what have you Like? What are, what are some of the questions you ask them in order to get a better idea of how to best capture what they want captured capture what they want captured.
Amy Ellis:Um, at this point, you honestly, one of my biggest questions is what is most important to you on your wedding day? And like, what do you want to remember? And same thing with family, like, tell me about your family, what is most important to you? And like, why do you want these photos? Basically, why are we doing this? And I guess, when it comes to how I capture it, I think I have a style now that's fairly documentary style, that people just know and I reiterate when we talk at our consultation, I don't step in, I make things or allow things happen as they do, and I don't want to interrupt a meaningful moment or turn it into a production in any way, because it's so easy to, like when a mom's putting on a bride's dress, to like ask them to move for an angle to get the light better. My style is the light just won't be exactly perfect, because this is the real moment that's happening. And why should I interrupt it? Because it's still a beautiful moment.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, I think one of the one of the few times I've had like my picture taken like as an adult. One of the photographers was very like prompt heavy and I was not. It was like pictures and pictures of me and Nicole and the photographers like act like you love each other and I'm like that's what you got Yikes.
Amy Ellis:That must have been a bad day.
Taylor D. Adams:Wasn't the best. That's funny, but then we got this woman named Amy Ellis to take our photos and they looked phenomenal.
Amy Ellis:What See? I feel like I have to be a little prompt, heavy, for you know, portraits as opposed to showing up to a wedding, because, like wedding, the day just unfolds, and if you like have two people show up, it's just like be you. And then you're like what do I do?
Taylor D. Adams:So, it's good, but I feel like if you make it a setting and a place that is very you and give each other meaningful discussion to talk about during it all, it can actually be a a nice memory tied in to the act of taking pictures what I really like about what you previously said, combined with this movie, is that these memories, that basically joel has to relive his memories in order for them to be erased, that basically Joel has to relive his memories in order for them to be erased, and the fact that all these memories are messy, like none of them are perfect.
Amy Ellis:I tell you everything, every damn embarrassing thing. You don't trust me.
Taylor D. Adams:Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating.
Amy Ellis:I don't do that. I want to know you Hmm.
Taylor D. Adams:I don't constantly talk Jesus. Jesus, people have to share things, joel. That's what intimacy is really pissed that you said that to me. I'm sorry. I think that's been brought up a lot on this podcast is like what if the thing we're talking about got remade and the first thing we go is god, no.
Amy Ellis:But then the second is like what?
Taylor D. Adams:how would it be different if this movie, if eternal sunshine of the spotless mind was, say, remade within the next five years? How different do you think it would be? Not from, like aesthetically, but the memories that are portrayed. How do you think they would be different?
Taylor D. Adams:Oh, I don't know, I don't know. The initial thing I think of is the fact that we're we're living in a time where memories are commodified with social media and so everything is like perfect, and even the things that aren't perfect are purposely not like. They're structured to be not perfect, and so I'm curious if, like the memories that new Joel goes through, look something like that.
Amy Ellis:Yeah, that's a great question, because one of my favorite things about the movie is that it is messy and he sleeps on a pullout couch, and well, that's one thing I love about their love, too is that their relationship is like it doesn't require money, it doesn't require a lot. They literally make the most out of the most mundane moments, and so when he's reliving these memories, it's like maybe they can't afford to drive in movies, so they pull to the like edge of the wall where they can still see it and then they like make up a script, while the people are talking, but can't you see?
Taylor D. Adams:I love you, antoine. Hmm, lucky me, lay one on me. Don't call me Antoine. My name is Wally. Yes, I know, but how can a woman love a man with a name like Wally? Oh, what was that? Hey, oh my was that? Hey, oh my God, there's people coming out of your butt.
Amy Ellis:There is, and you know they sneak into a movie, I think, in one of the deleted scenes and I don't know Like they literally and I love this too, because it doesn't make sense and it's weird, but also some couples would understand it they suffocate each other for fun, not in like a sexual way, but it's just like a weird thing that couples I guess do, and I feel like every couple has that one weird thing that doesn't make sense to other people, but it's just like it's not a a pretty movie. Yeah, the aesthetics just don't exist and I think that's why it's so beautiful to me. Still and I feel like it would be it would look very different. These days, everything has to, yeah, everything is so curated, and I feel like the way they told their story was just like 2004 yeah just completely themselves, not worried about what other people thought of their living
Amy Ellis:situations and stuff. But yeah, I think, oh god, I feel like it would be such a bad movie now. But to be fair too, I mean, if you want to factor in things like covid and thinking about how weddings have changed, everyone went from being like I want these. I have this grand vision of a wedding, and this is me speaking personally. It's like here's my vision, I want this aesthetic to. I literally just want to have a great time with my people and remember it and like that's a huge change.
Amy Ellis:And people are just kind of over the BS of putting on a show.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah.
Amy Ellis:So hopefully that would also look different in the movie.
Taylor D. Adams:So sorry for the interruption, but I will be brief. I am so grateful that you decided to listen to the Film Nuts podcast today. If you are enjoying what you're hearing, please consider supporting the show on Patreon. With a small monthly amount, you can get access to behind the scenes goodies, early access to full episodes and you can vote on what movie we watch the first Monday of every month on the Nuthouse Discord. The Nuthouse itself is free to join and is full of other film and TV lovers, so you'll fit right in. You can check out info on all these things in the show notes, and if all of this sounds like a bit too much, that's totally okay. But if you want to keep up to date on all of our episodes, please be sure and subscribe on your favorite platform of choice. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, go ahead and leave a rating and review so we can get in front of other awesome people like yourself.
Taylor D. Adams:Okay, enough of me rambling back to the good stuff. Going off of what you said about how people's kind of attitudes have been changed about event uh, capturing event uh, covid and beyond, I think like that seems like a benefit to me, is like to me, like. The important stuff is is the realness and the like, what actually happened, and not constructing something. I'll go back to the. I'll go back to the photo shoot that Nicole and I did. Uh right, I had a mixed feelings about the photographer.
Amy Ellis:It could have been totally me, though, cause sometimes she's totally listening to this right now and being like stop talking shit about it.
Taylor D. Adams:But for me it's very much like shit. Well, her and I've agreed it was very much me, it was my it was like it was, I was in my head about things and like it was it was it was.
Amy Ellis:Photos aren't for everybody, so if you want it to be, I am.
Taylor D. Adams:I am weird. I sometimes I you know, very recently I've gotten Over Not a fear of being photographed, but I used to not like photos of myself. Yeah, and very recently I've gotten over that and I'm like, ok, all right, I'm getting used to it. But an interesting story was when we were first planning to do these photos, these family photos, it poured down. Rain that day poured down and it was canceled and I was like why?
Amy Ellis:did we cancel it.
Taylor D. Adams:I feel like that could have been really fun, like, because, if we all have this attitude like, this is ridiculous, like let's make this as fun as possible, cause it's not an ideal scenario, so it's almost like an over correction of the fact that your weather conditions aren't perfect, so, like these photos aren't going to be perfect, so let's lean, let's have fun, like, and I think, uh, just embracing the kind of like non-structure, I think that pivot like you were talking about. I think, personally, I like a pivot like that where things are a little bit more natural, cause you'll remember, you know, if, let's say, somebody's wedding goes really well, except like, uh, like when they were leaving with the spark horse, it poured down rain, like though. But you'll, they'll remember those photos though, of them soaking wet, running to the limo, like.
Taylor D. Adams:That'll be a fun, yeah, story to tell exactly, I'm with you yeah, and I think if this movie tried to uh, if this new iteration that were hopefully not speaking into existence, please, no, if it came out, I think it would be uh, a very uh difficult thing to try and be, as uh I hate the word authentic, but yeah, as I think that as authentic as possible with kind of the way I agree media is right now yeah, and also, how do you erase someone completely from your mind?
Amy Ellis:yeah, they're like living in your smartphone right, yeah there's a whole it's almost impossible to erase. There's more logistics they have to go into which that's.
Taylor D. Adams:That actually brings me to. One thing I wanted to talk about is elijah woods character and like he's so good, I completely creepy guy. When he first showed up, I forgot he was in this movie. That was my first thought. The second thought was like why does he have facial hair? That's weird, yeah. And then, as the more the movie went on, I was like I completely kind of forgot about this story with him. Is that he basically weaponized memories? Yeah which I'm like that's a problem, yeah, so who do?
Taylor D. Adams:you think's better looking, maybe this guy. Patrick, let's roll with this buddy. Remember that girl we did last week.
Amy Ellis:The one with the potatoes, that girl yeah, that's this guy's girl. Her friend yeah Well, it's good name was Take care of that, oh Well, uh, I kind of fell in love with her that night. What you little fuck. She was unconscious man.
Taylor D. Adams:Well, she was beautiful and I stole a pair of her panties as well, jesus.
Amy Ellis:They're just like. You can grab any file you want and just decide that you can feed off of this person's like comfort and memory and know everything about them. It's not good.
Taylor D. Adams:And I feel like but that's almost like a common thing now except everything is done like virtually that's true, it's not really done in person that much anymore but virtually any kind of catfishing or scamming. That's basically what a lot of characters do in this movie.
Amy Ellis:That's a good point. And he stole her underwear, which is something that was a problem.
Taylor D. Adams:Something that was a problem, yeah, it was like there's so many things that, uh, you know, came out over 20 years ago. We're like, oh, can't really make have a movie or a tv show with that decision anymore. But it doesn't. It doesn't detract from the fact that it's still like like that cringy behavior has meaning yeah, yeah, and so it has like, yeah he's, he's a complete asshole and that's the point.
Amy Ellis:I do like. One thing about this movie is that none of the characters are perfect and they all seem far from perfect, which I really appreciate too.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, they're all deeply flawed and unprofessional. Why are we getting drunk and high and jumping on the bed while someone's sleeping in it?
Amy Ellis:It sounds like they do this on a regular basis, wherever they go.
Taylor D. Adams:It's like man report these people to the Better Business Bureau For real. Do you have a favorite moment or scene from this movie?
Amy Ellis:Um, hmm, yeah, I love the scenes where he hides Clementine in his childhood memories.
Taylor D. Adams:I don't know why.
Amy Ellis:I just think it's really sweet and beautiful to suddenly be like oh, this is my childhood. No one ever comes here, you know.
Taylor D. Adams:She's not looking at me, she's busy. She's not looking at me. No one ever looks at me. I want my mommy. Oh, baby Joel. Hey, joely, is every little peanut under there, okay, mm-hmm, he's fine. Do you have something to drink?
Amy Ellis:Would you drink a cocktail at this hour? I mean, I know it's not 5. I would die for a vodka. Oh, hang on, let me check if I have it.
Taylor D. Adams:Okay, I'm just gonna wait for it, joel. Hey, no, sweetie Jolie, your mother wants me to mind you Get back under the table. It's clean. No, not until after you've had your dinner.
Amy Ellis:Come on, joel, joel, grow up. And it also gave Jim Carrey, I think, an opportunity to be his. Ace Ventura self, as opposed to a very sad introverted character. His natural comic nature which makes sense if he's playing a kid who's not as reserved. So I enjoyed that, where I was like, okay, now he's got a little time to shine. But I also really like the ending. The ending, I think, is so simple and it doesn't take a lot of tying up.
Taylor D. Adams:I'm not a concept, Joel. I'm just a fucked up girl who's looking for my own peace of mind. I'm not perfect. I can't see anything that I don't like about you. But you will Right now. I can't.
Amy Ellis:But you will.
Taylor D. Adams:You know you will think of things and I'll get bored with you and feel trapped, because that's what happens with me.
Amy Ellis:Okay, Okay, Okay. It's just like oh okay, we know what happened. Do we want to do it again? Is it worth it? And then it's just like the end of the movie and it was just kind of like an enlightening thing to watch when you're young. Just be like, oh, outcomes aren't everything.
Taylor D. Adams:That's what you took away from that.
Amy Ellis:Yeah, I think. Well, I don't know if I was really thinking about it that much at 15, but I was always someone who never desired to get like married right out of college, even though that was a big thing for everybody else, especially growing up as like a conservative christian or in a conservative christian family.
Amy Ellis:Um, that's just like what everybody did, and I was someone who never wanted kids. I had a lot of ideas and plans and I was just like why, why is everyone wanting to suddenly like tie themselves down and get into this like relationship where you don't get to put yourself first, at least for like a few years, when you finally become an adult and have freedom, right? And and it was eye opening to like see a couple it wasn't a fall in love get married happily. Ever after it was like, oh, we're going to go through this relationship and it may not last, but like why does that have to be the only option? Like we can also just enjoy this relationship for what it is and then move on from it. And it was kind of like, oh, I like that Not every relationship has to be the end goal of, you know, total happiness together forever, kind of a thing.
Taylor D. Adams:Right, I love that it was. I mean, a lot of movies and TV shows or whatever are love stories. I love that this is a love story, but it's not about like, yeah, it's not about fairytale endings or even um, the real love was the friends we made along the way. Nothing like kind of like cop out like that. It was more like yeah, this, you people will. Relationships will come and go in your life and it it's up to you to kind of like determine what you take from them exactly.
Amy Ellis:Yeah, you can learn from them and yeah, you can just move on. I knew a lot of kids growing up dating and I guess this is what all kids do, but they would date for like two weeks and be like we love each other and we're together forever and that's like like okay, like slow down. I just thought those people were crazy.
Taylor D. Adams:Oh yeah, I'd be like what we're 12.
Amy Ellis:Like what are you talking about? And was it sixth grade? I think it was fifth grade. My fifth grade boyfriend told me that he loved me and I was like we're in fifth grade, we need to dial it down.
Taylor D. Adams:Sir mentioned that all these, like everybody in this movie, is messy like no. Like everybody is extremely complicated. Is there any one particular person that you identify with or relate to more than the others?
Amy Ellis:um, honestly, no, I. I feel like the characters seem a lot louder and stronger and more obvious to me than they did when I was younger, but I guess, probably when I was like 18, I was probably Joel, because I was a I was quiet, people pleaser kind of just went along with everything people said.
Amy Ellis:And now I'm very much not that, because I've learned to speak up for myself and like say what I want. Um, so I do love that about Clementine too, how she like literally just says what she's thinking. But I also think if she approached me on a train, I would be like you scare me. I'd be like I don't like where this is going like you're beautiful and you seem great, but also I'm a little afraid of you. I would not go back to your house, but yeah, I don't know what about you yeah, I don't.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, I don't think anybody, I think it's. I don't want to say it's weird to identify with any of these people, because there are people that are like this, like I identify. I can relate to parts of Joel, I can relate to parts of Clementine, um, I can relate to parts of the doctor. Like there are individual people that. I can see like almost like justify the behavior, like okay, I understand why they're doing that.
Amy Ellis:Yeah.
Taylor D. Adams:But for me I was, it wasn't, which is weird, cause it's such. It's such a great movie that has a good impact and for me, a marker or an indicator of if a movie is having a really good impact on you is that you relate to a person, but this is so interesting that it's more that we relate to. I mean, you and me, we're relating to this concept about, about, and also the way it's executed. Like we talked about the filmmaking part of it, yeah, but yeah, normally it's about, like, the human connection of things, and this is, I guess this is a movie about human connection. So in that sense, that's true, it does work.
Amy Ellis:Yeah, like I, I am always someone who is. How can I relate to these characters and how can I love? I guess they are still lovable characters, but yeah, it's kind of funny how you find yourself rooting for them at the end even though you know it won't work out or most likely won't, unless they remember certain things and work towards fixing it Right. But if they don't remember, what if they just go out again, date for two years, break up and then erase each other again, and it's just a forever cycle.
Taylor D. Adams:I know which I think is super interesting, because the movie like is like, it starts off in that direct like it's almost like leading to the fact that this will happen again. You know, ok, what time is like. What is the third time Like it's another, it's like a time loop movie. Yeah, yeah, if you, if you had to pair, if you had a double feature at your house with this movie and another movie it could be any movie what would it be Part of me wants to say Memento, because it also involves memory.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah. And I watched that like three times Came out around the same time. Yeah.
Amy Ellis:Three times in my like film class in high school. So, I don't honestly remember a lot of it. I need to go watch it again but you'll probably laugh. But just because it's also a huge impact to me in high school Moulin Rouge, because, like it's very different.
Taylor D. Adams:So this is the Amy Ellis film festival. Yes, got it.
Amy Ellis:The Amy Ellis at 16 film festival.
Taylor D. Adams:Okay.
Amy Ellis:And Nicole would absolutely be attending.
Taylor D. Adams:Okay, yeah, yeah. This, this show is spoiler filled, like every episode is full of spoilers. But if you had to recommend this movie to someone who had not seen it, what's your elevator pitch?
Amy Ellis:Um, it's unlike any movie you've ever seen. It's low budget but high impact, both visually and mentally. You get to watch famous actors play characters they don't normally play For both Kate Winslet and Jim Carrey, Mm-hmm. And there are so many little details that you will miss the first time. That will make you keep wanting to go back to catch them again and again. I think that's about it.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, I had completely forgotten about the Kirsten Dunst subplot in this movie. Yeah, I just had no clue, like I didn't know where I was going. Like the hints are always there and I'm like, oh, she's got a little crush on. She's like, really she's got a crush on the doctor and I was like oh fuck, I totally forgot.
Amy Ellis:Oh, no, oh thought was gonna happen. I knew it. How it didn't start out to be like this, I came here to work, carlisle this is a one-time mistake.
Taylor D. Adams:I'm a stupid girl with a stupid crush. I swear, I basically forced him into it there'll be a monster, howard, tell the girl tell me what oh you poor kid.
Amy Ellis:Oh you poor kid, you can have him. You did well. Even I told Stephen when he was watching this for the first time last week I was like it's nice that she changes her hair color, because it helps kind of give you an idea of timeline. And he was like well, it might be something even deeper than that. And we were like huh.
Taylor D. Adams:So we looked it up and we were like ah, they did it again. They got us, there's another detail I missed.
Amy Ellis:Basically, her hair signifies different seasons of their relationship, so green is the very beginning. When they meet growth, new beginnings.
Taylor D. Adams:Okay.
Amy Ellis:Red is the second one once they actually start dating and they have a lot of passion and love, so summer of love kind of vibe.
Taylor D. Adams:Right.
Amy Ellis:Then, once they start having their issues and fighting and bickering, she dies her hair orange, which could be signified as like fall, or she names orange agent orange, which is not great, you know, another kind of good descriptor. And then Winter, when she dyed her hair blue, is when she erases him and is like grieving the loss of this relationship. And I was like dang, that's actually pretty good.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, I love little, just aesthetic things like that that just signify obvious change. Like you don't, you're not thinking of it yeah but then when you, then when the truth is revealed to you're like you know what? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Amy Ellis:Or even just like the tiny moments where he goes to pour a drink and he goes like, oh sorry, I thought I had more. And then it clicks like, oh, you had more, it was just the erasers who came into your apartment, drank all of your booze, yeah. So I just love those little things where you're like, oh yeah, yeah, let's make sense now how would you take it if somebody erased you from their memory?
Amy Ellis:I would feel really bad because I was I grew up a people pleaser and I'd be like what did I do? I'm so sorry, but yeah, I don't know. I guess I'd be a little offended because I feel like I tried pretty hard to be a good person.
Taylor D. Adams:Would you then like befriend this person who did not know you anymore and try to like redo something, like be better? That feels Not that the blame is on you.
Amy Ellis:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taylor D. Adams:But they felt the need to do something.
Amy Ellis:That would feel creepy and wrong to me. So you wouldn't be elijah wood. No, no, I wouldn't. My favorite scene with him is when he's already been erased, but he's like revisiting a memory and you see elijah wood picking something up off the floor and he like looks up and it's his blurred face, with his eyes upside down, and I was like his eyes really are.
Taylor D. Adams:Oh, joel joel's when joel's going through his memory.
Amy Ellis:Yes, sorry, yeah, when joel's going through his memories and yeah patrick's inside of it. Patrick slash elijah wood right and I was like that is terrifying um, I did see that.
Taylor D. Adams:I was like what a great way to visually indicate things you're erasing and changing, like the whole like, like like glossed over face, like the featureless faces and the slight distortions of things and even in the voices and stuff.
Amy Ellis:It's super yeah, it feels very dreamlike to me, like when you can't recall what somebody looked like. In a dream like to me, that's kind of what my brain registers yeah um, and I love when you watch the scenes happening. It's almost like you forget that what you're watching is a memory being erased, until you suddenly see like a sign, just disappear.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, something fall like in the, in the bookstore, when, like, the titles of the book, sections go away and the street names on signs and stuff like that it's always. I noticed it this time around. It's really cool.
Amy Ellis:Yeah, I like how subtle it is, but it's definitely there. And then all of a sudden, there's like nothing behind them and you're like, whoa, what just happened? I guess I have a question for you, shoot. If you were losing your memory, is that something that would scare you, or do you think that you wouldn't even notice because you wouldn't know what you were missing out on?
Taylor D. Adams:Well, I feel like if I, if I lose my memory and there are indicators that I'm losing my memory like somebody shows up and says they know me and I don't know them, then, yeah, I'd be freaked out.
Taylor D. Adams:Like yeah, memory is a huge worry for me personally because I've had like, not one for me personally because, I've had like not one but two, at least two grandparents with dementia and like, yeah, even on my stepdad's side of the family, his parents both had alzheimer's. So it's like that's been around like my life, and so that really does frighten me. But this can be. This could be complete bullshit and unhealthy, but I like the theory that these cognitive conditions are actually our minds expanding beyond time yeah, I like that we're both living in the present, in the past at the same time.
Amy Ellis:I like that a lot.
Taylor D. Adams:Was it you that told me this story about? There was like a woman who had dementia and thought her bedroom was on fire. Yes, can you tell me that? Can you tell me?
Amy Ellis:that real quick, oh my God. So if anyone is curious about more stories like this, there's an Instagram account named Nurse Hadley and she wrote a book about being a hospice nurse and like just interesting experiences she's had and it probably brings a lot of comfort to people who are like grieving or having to face being mortal. But one of her stories includes a woman who had Alzheimer's and she was in hospice and her husband called this nurse saying she will not sleep. She's just walking around the room pacing, saying that the house or that that room is on fire and she won't get in the bed because it's on fire. And she came over and was like, well, instead of saying there isn't a fire, you need to acknowledge that to her there is and move the bed. So they moved the bed into another room. She went into the other room, fell asleep, no problem.
Amy Ellis:Um, she passed away and I think it was like a month maybe. After she passed away, the husband called the nurse and said there was a fire in that room and to me it's kind of like maybe it is this expanding of the mind that, like you might know more and that's why you just don't remember things.
Taylor D. Adams:Yeah, because we can't handle everything Exactly Crazy. Well, amy, thanks so much for talking with me about this movie and getting me to rewatch it, because I hadn't seen it since probably around the time it came out, so this was awesome.
Amy Ellis:Thanks for having me. You got me to rewatch it, but it all took a long time since I'd seen it, so thank you.
Taylor D. Adams:So that's it. I hope you wouldn't choose to forget the last 40-ish minutes of your time, because I had a great time chatting with a friend. Plenty of bad things can happen to us and I realized the next thing I'm about to say comes from a privileged point of view. But there are a lot of great moments that happen in our lives that go along with those moments that we wish we'd forget. But the Lacuna Incorporated procedure isn't real. So here's hoping all of the positive moments in your lives outweigh the bad, so you can appreciate all of the nuances of life and relationships. A huge thanks to Amy for chatting with me today and an unforgettable thank you to you for watching, listening, joining us today or even all season. If you wanna check out some of Amy's work, I highly suggest you do. You can check out some of the links to that in the show notes. If you enjoyed the show today, please go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform of choice to stay up to date on all of our episodes. And if you happen to be listening to this on Apple Podcasts, please leave a rating and review. Leaving a rating and review helps us get noticed by more awesome people like yourself. If you're really enjoying the show and you want to help support us and maybe get a little bit bigger and better and get some cool perks in the process, please consider backing us on Patreon. You can find links to that in the show notes below or visit patreoncom.
Taylor D. Adams:Slash film nuts Our theme this season has been brought to us by the deep end. Our artwork is designed by our head of production is Keaton Lusk, and all episodes of the film nuts podcast are produced and edited by me, taylor D Adams. If you want to get in touch, you can email filmnutspodcasts at gmailcom or follow us on Instagram and TikTok at filmnutspodcasts. And one last thing don't forget to join the Nuthouse Discord community absolutely free by checking out the link in the show notes. There's some really cool folks in there and that's where I'll be hanging out until our next season. Thank you all again. So much for joining us today and all season long. So between now and when the next episode comes out, meet me in Montauk.