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The Film Nuts Podcast
Your host Taylor D. Adams talks to artists, musicians, writers and others about their favorite films and shows, and asks them to share how they have been inspired or affected. Hopefully we can get to the root of why we love what we watch, why we’re crazy about a movie or *nuts* about a show…get it?
The Film Nuts Podcast
LOST with Taylor Morden
Ever wondered what makes a TV show more than just entertainment? Filmmaker Taylor Morden joins me to explore how Lost became a cultural touchstone that transformed television and connected millions of viewers worldwide.
Morden, director of the documentary Getting Lost, shares his journey from skeptical viewer to devoted fan after properly watching the series from the beginning. What started as curiosity about a popular show became a six-year obsession that formed friendships he maintains to this day. His documentary captures not just the creative impact of the series but the profound human connections it fostered: people who met spouses through fan forums, formed lifelong friendships, and even found career inspiration through their shared love of the island's mysteries.
Our chat delves into what made Lost revolutionary: its cinematic production values, complex mythology, and emergence at a unique moment when the internet was evolving but hadn't yet fragmented our collective cultural experiences. Unlike today's algorithm-fed content streams where "no one agrees on what the thing is," Lost represented perhaps the last major shared cultural phenomenon that united viewers across demographics. The weekly release schedule, online theories, and emerging podcast culture created a community experience that feels increasingly rare in our on-demand world.
Beyond Lost, Morden and myself explore the changing landscape of media consumption, from the death of video rental stores to the dwindling theatrical experience. We reflect on our favorite Lost characters (from Charlie and Hurley to Locke and Rose & Bernard), standout episodes, and the show's lasting impact on television storytelling.
Ready to revisit the island or discover it for the first time? Grab your Dharma beer, press play and remember—if we can't live together, we're gonna die alone.
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Guys where are we? So I watched an episode and I went back to my friends and I was like this show is terrible, I don't understand. And then that summer, through the magic of DVD, I watched the first season all in a row Because everybody was like you're wrong, you're stupid, you have to check it out. And I burned through that first season in five days and I was hooked. So then for six years I'm in the people I met through that show. I'm still friends with many of them today. I loved that TV show.
Speaker 1:Hey folks, and welcome back to the Film Nuts podcast, a show about why we love what we watch. I'm your host, taylor D Adams, storyteller, filmmaker and unofficial member of the Dharma Initiative. I am so glad you decided to join us today. So let's for a moment take a breath and think about how we came to know our closest friends in life. Did we meet them at school? Did we grow up across the street from them? Did we survive oceanic flight 815?
Speaker 1:Lost was, and still is, a landmark television series about a group of people learning to live together on a mysterious island. Of course, that simple sentence comes nowhere close to describing just how complex, intricate and bonkers this series is. As my favorite show of all time, it has had a lasting impact on me, but I am not alone. Others have been so inspired to start podcasts dedicated to Lost, some founded online forums and message boards, and one man even made a documentary about Lost's everlasting legacy.
Speaker 1:Taylor Morden is a filmmaker and the director of Getting Lost, a film that showcases how the hit ABC show changed the television landscape, united a global fan base and deeply affected the cast and crew. Taylor did not immediately fall in love with Lost, but once he gave it a second chance. It truly altered his life trajectory. Taylor and I chat about making friends with fellow Lost fans, the idea of film and television being an experience, and which Lost characters just got it right all along. So crack open a Dharma brand beer and check out Taylor Morden talking about Lost on the Film Nods podcast In your background. Do you consciously have your media arranged by color code?
Speaker 2:Yes, which makes it very difficult to find movies, but I like the vibes, you know looks great though, yeah my partner's the same way.
Speaker 1:We have whatever books we have in the house, like she arranges them by the color and I'm like but how do I find what I'm looking?
Speaker 2:for I've gotten used to it, like I know the colors of most tapes uh, they're all VHS so yeah, yeah, that's great. But then it becomes very difficult when I get new tapes because I'm like fuck, it's another orange one, I don't have room in the orange section, I gotta get rid of orange yeah, so is that?
Speaker 1:is it all? Vhs is behind you. Yeah, wow that's so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's like floor to ceiling. Wow, it's like a few hundred tapes and there's more.
Speaker 1:Just that didn't fit the color coding you know. So like are you just collecting VHSs? Is that what you're doing?
Speaker 2:I mean, I collect everything. There's like walls of Ninja Turtles oh wow, I build robots in my spare time. I'm a big physical media guy. There's like walls of Ninja Turtles oh wow, I build robots in my spare time. I'm a big physical media guy. There's records upstairs. You know Peter Panning it. I don't want to grow up.
Speaker 1:I understand that I don't buy a lot of physical things, but the one thing I do will be movies, DVDs, box sets.
Speaker 2:I need to have that I still, you know I'm I'm 4k criterion and also vhs laser disc, beta laser disc whoa, yeah, I've got a killer laser disc collection and one working laser disc player, which is the hardest thing to come by.
Speaker 1:Yeah I was like I can't think of the last time I actually saw a laser disc player.
Speaker 2:That's really cool most of them don't work. They wear out really fast because the motors and the lasers, like they, weren't very well made and there weren't that many of them, so they're getting hard to come by. But I hoard working techs. I have like seven working VCRs that are good, because then when they break no one fixes them. Yeah, so you, just when I find a good one with a remote I I snake them up and put them in a closet. That's great. Is this the?
Speaker 1:podcast. Is this what we're doing? Yeah, Might as well. Let's just talk about your collection of shit. This is great. Uh, love it. I was looking at, uh, some of the work you've done, uh, including getting lost, which I recently watched and I'm so happy you agreed to talk about it. Um, and I also also started watching your Scott documentary, cause I'm a huge Scott fan and, um, I I gotta know, like it seems to be, there's like a thread with some of your, your nonfiction work, your documentary center around pop culture. Like why is that? Uh?
Speaker 2:because I am not very well read. Uh, I'm not a religious person, so I feel like if I didn't have pop culture, I wouldn't have any culture at all. So, the way I like to look at it, I grew up, um, you know, single mom who worked a lot. I spent a lot of time in front of the TV. Comic books just video games and movies were my world. I didn't always have a lot of friends, but I could always turn to TV and VHS tapes and comic books and things like that.
Speaker 2:As you know, my, my mythos, sort of my, my worldview right, Came from these things. So I identify very heavily as someone who was a child of the eighties and nineties which was so drenched in pop culture. Like it was the last time in the pre-internet era. I think it was the last time when as a society, at least in America, we all kind of agreed on what the things were. You know, there was a period of time when, like you, couldn't go anywhere without Batman being the thing, right, 1989, batman a couple months, and then a couple years later it's like Terminator 2 is the thing, titanic is the thing, jurassic Park is the thing, the Backstreet Boys are the thing, whatever, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are the thing, and we all agreed.
Speaker 2:And then the 2000s come and the internet and everything's segmented and the major record labels crumble and the movie studios lose a grip on everything and everything's indie and everything's a podcast and everything's you know, uh, custom. Everybody gets their own media through their own algorithm feed of whatever it is you specifically want. So no one agrees on what the thing is. So now you go meet up with a bunch of friends and everybody's like listing shows you have to watch that you've never heard of on some streaming platform. That you've never heard of.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So I just I'm a nostalgia kid and I love the time when we all agreed what the thing was. Right, my little pony, it wasn't my thing, but I knew it was the thing. So even if I wasn't into the thing, I was culturally aware of what the thing was. So I think that's where my fascination with pop culture comes from. Is I just I liked when we could all just agree on on the thing and maybe other people get that from going to church or you know, an Elks club get together or whatever sports. Other people love sports. Yeah Right, I don't do sports, I don't know what that is. And other people have always had this thing where it's like, oh, it's Sunday, we got to watch the sports thing and I'm following my team and I'm like, great, you have that. And they still agree what the thing is. Yeah, 30, 40 years later they're like it's still the Minnesota Viking. I don't know what teams are.
Speaker 2:That's a team. Good job, great LA Lakers, that's like there we go, it's two for two.
Speaker 2:Because it's in LA. I've heard of it, but you know what I mean. Like, other people have sports, other people have religion, I have television movies and comic books and video games no-transcript. That's where the idea for the lost documentary came from. Is that's one of the last shows I can remember. That was that thing that we all agreed at least many people, millions, 20 million people agreed was the thing. That finale of lost was inescapable. And that's one of the last times I can remember something being the thing. Game of thrones came close. You know, not quite the numbers, but at least pop culture wise. We're like that's the thing, we all know it. But lost was for sure the thing for a minute. And to think that that even the finale was 15 years ago, but the beginning of it was 20 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like 21 years ago now, like that show came out and children that were born that year can drink now Come on.
Speaker 1:I know, right, that's wild. So so, yeah, like I mean I do want to talk about getting lost, I do. I mean that's why you're on here, yeah, so I mean you talk about just it's, it's its existence, its importance you refer to as kind of the last time you thought of this kind of like more massive cultural connection, either nationwide or worldwide. Um, but why, why did you want to make a movie about lost?
Speaker 2:Um, I loved that TV show I. It was. For me, uh, it was one of those things. I had kind of outgrown television a bit early, two thousands, I think TV wasn't. You know, I was in college was like tv ain't what it used to be. You know, I wasn't sitting down watching shows, uh, a little bit on dvd, but it was like box sets of saved by the bell and stuff I grew up on, because dvd was the thing in that moment.
Speaker 2:Uh, from blockbuster video and it people were talking about this new show, this like weird mystery, cool show. Like I wasn't on board from the beginning but that first um season came out and everybody was talking about it, at least in my circle, because we're all kind of sci-fi nerds and you know that's who was into this show, which was weird for a network tv show I had heard about a little bit. You know, like buffy and other nerd shows, I'm like, oh cool, there's nerd shows, that's neat. But this was an abc prime time show. I'm like there's no way it's cool, right, I mean because early 2000s they weren't cool.
Speaker 1:Like it was just legal drama, medical drama. That was like all they had.
Speaker 2:I'm like okay, so what kind, what version of law and order is this? Oh, they're on an Island. Okay, so it's Gilligan's Island and order.
Speaker 1:Right, Okay great Um.
Speaker 2:And then I watched one episode, um, and it was terrible cause you can't watch one episode, which wasn't a thing at that time. There wasn't serialized mystery long form drama on network television so I assumed, like everyone else, that you could just watch any episode like a Law and Order or a medical, like an ER or whatever. I thought you could pop in and get the gist like Gilligan's Island, which I had watched individual episodes of my whole life and been like great Harlem Globetrotters, I get it, they're not going to get off the island. So I watched an episode and I went back to my friends and I was like this show is terrible, I don't understand. It was the episode middle of season one. It was a Michael and Walt episode. It's called Special.
Speaker 1:I'm a wreck right now, okay.
Speaker 2:What I'm supposed to give a damn about you.
Speaker 1:Hey, I just lost the woman I love. All right, I can't be his father. Shut up, bitch. What the hell are you talking about? You're the only father he knows. It's more than that. Then what? There's just something about him. What the hell are you talking about, man?
Speaker 2:Sometimes, when he's around, things happen. He's different somehow. I'm like, okay, this show's about a kid who has psychic powers, who lives in New York and doesn't, and then his dad and then his mom dies, and then, okay, there's a polar bear, and then there's these other characters that I don't know anything about running around on an island trying to ration medicine or food or I don't know. But it's mostly about this psychic kid, but he's not psychic. The show makes no sense. I hate it, right, because they don't explain anything. Yes, and that had never happened on TV.
Speaker 2:And then I sort of wrote it off. And then that summer, through the magic of DVD, I watched the first season all in a row because it was like you're wrong, you're stupid, you have to check it out. And then the DVDs came out on discs. First disc had the pilot, tabula Rasa and Walkabout on it, mm-hmm. And the pilot is amazing. It's one of the best pilots ever made. Yeah, that first episode is good. It's a good episode of television, but it's nothing to write home about. And then Walkabout, I think, is one of the greatest episodes of television ever written, ever produced, and changed my view of television forever.
Speaker 1:You want a plane back to Sydney? On our dime, it's the best I can no, I don't want to go back to Sydney. Look, I've been preparing for this for years. Just put me on the bus right now. I can do this. No, you can't. Hey. Hey, don't you walk away from me. You don't know who you're dealing with. Don't ever tell me what I can't do, ever. This is destiny. This is destiny. This is my destiny.
Speaker 2:I'm supposed to do this, dammit.
Speaker 1:Don't tell me what I can't do.
Speaker 2:Don't tell me what I can't do. Don't tell me what I can't do. And then I had to drive an hour one way back to Blockbuster Video to get the second disc of Lost, and immediately. So I went, returned the first disc, got the second disc that same day. It's like they're closing, you know, at midnight. Blockbuster used to stay up until midnight. Gotta get there before they close and get the second disc. And I burned through that first season in I don't know five days or something, and I was hooked. So then for six years I'm in and I'm one of those people who's obsessed with the message boards and the podcast. I'd never heard of a podcast, and so for like a year.
Speaker 1:I thought all podcasts were about Lost.
Speaker 2:I was like podcast is just a word for people talking about Lost and I have a little bit of an obsessive personality. I get really into things and Lost was that thing for like almost six years. The people I met through that show I'm still friends with many of them today um, I I got to go to hawaii and visit the set during their final season because oh nice, my wife is amazing and for my birthday, took me on a trip.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's so cool and I was there, like they did a big explosion day and I was standing right there and I was just like I was not yet even thinking about becoming a filmmaker, but that was my first time on a real set and I was like I think I might want to do this with my life. So you know, cut to 10 years later, I start thinking about making films and it was always in the back of my mind of like one of these days I'm going to tell the story of what it was like to be a fan of this thing for this time, because it was such a unique thing. I've been a fan of a ton of things, been a star wars fan my whole life. I've been into a bunch of other very specific pop culture things. For you know, a year, five years, 40 years, whatever it nothing was quite the same as the experience of being a lost fan.
Speaker 2:When Sort of the internet was figuring out how to interact with television, podcasts were being invented, message boards were like on their way out, social media was on its way up. We were connecting in a way you know Twitter was invented. During that show, you could ask a question of the internet and, like the writers of the show, would read it, contemplate it and maybe change the show. Yeah, because before they realized don't do that. You know, like immediately after Breaking Bad comes out and they're like do not engage with the fans Because they learned from Lost right.
Speaker 1:They don't know what they want or they're doing.
Speaker 2:Right, do not read the comments, right? Yeah, but it was too early for them to know that. So it was this unique point in time that never happened before, because we didn't have the internet, we didn't have these online fan communities, and it will never happen again, because the internet has become the dumpster fire we all live in now. So that's why I'm sorry if that was way too many words for your no.
Speaker 1:Please keep going that's why I'm sorry if that was way too many words for your. No, please keep going.
Speaker 2:That's why I wanted to make this documentary is because I lived. It is a very personal thing for me. I was a huge fan of the show and also, when you're a huge fan of something and you're a documentary filmmaker, in the back of your head you're like what can I do to like maybe get to hang out with JJ Abrams, like in what world. Yeah, like, maybe if I spend three years of my life documenting his first big hit show.
Speaker 1:I mean, I feel like that's a good enough reason to do anything.
Speaker 1:I feel like yeah, if and it was someone who, like, like, similar to you, like I really was invested in TV from like a really young age and I've had different shows just inspire me to want to like be in that world, like be in that filmmaking world. I mean loss is definitely one of them. And then, um, actually the this, uh, this comedy on USA called psych really made me want to like make TV too, Cause it I watched like all the behind the scenes stuff and everybody just seems like you're having the most fun in the world and I was like I would like to have fun for a living. That seems like a really nice way to spend my life. Um, so I'm I definitely really appreciate that angle and can totally understand as well. Um, so, like when you were, when you watched that first, when you watched the first episode you ever saw, were you by your, by yourself, Did like friends sit you down and make you watch it. Like what was that?
Speaker 2:experience. No, I was in a hotel room, I was traveling somewhere and I wish I could remember what I was doing or where, cause this question has come up a lot in the last couple of years. But I really can't, because I didn't have cable and I lived in rural Oregon. I still kind of live in not a huge city, but I live in Oregon and we didn't have broadcast TV, so it's not like I could even tune in if I wanted to. I didn't have cable. So I was in a hotel and it was one of those like the guide thing came up on the hotel screen and it said you know, hey, in 10 minutes lost is on. I'm like, oh, that's that show everybody's talking about. So that was the only way I was going to see a random episode. I was by myself. It had my undivided attention. You know when you're in a hotel, and this is 10 years before smartphones.
Speaker 2:It's not like I'm scrolling through Instagram, which won't be invented for another 12 years. I'm just watching this TV show and I was really trying because, like you, tv was so important. I was like I'm going to give this the old college try. I was like I'm going to give this the old college try. I believe people when they tell me something is good because I'm just a fan of things and this was smart people, the people that I trusted that were like you know, these are the good diehard movies and these are the bad diehard movies and they're right. I'm like, ok, and they're saying Lost is good, great, but they didn't say you have to watch the pilot. They left out.
Speaker 2:The key thing is like start from the beginning, you know, yeah, which, in hindsight, was the whole ballgame. Like you have to, yeah, but again, that hadn't been a thing before. Lost. Like most network shows almost all network shows you could start wherever. Like you can watch any episode of Cheers and get it, yeah, and you don't need to understand that Sam Malone used to be a baseball player. And then you know, I don't even know injured Sports.
Speaker 1:I don't have any idea.
Speaker 2:But now he runs a bar, right. Yeah, that's the whole setup.
Speaker 1:So Lost is a bit more complicated, yeah, uh, yeah, it's so interesting that, like I kind of always know what you're talking about, but wording it feels like it feels revolutionary, just to word it, because in a way it's like, yeah, watch the show, and you watch whatever version of the show you can get your hands on, but yeah, at the time you're like, no, actually you need to like somehow go back in time or wait until the season's over and buy the box set and then watch it. Yeah, because it wasn't.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's hard for young people to understand. Uh, I don't know, you seem younger than I am, but 38, yeah, so you're a little younger than I am, but you understand. But I've talked to people now, you know, in their 20s, who cannot comprehend a time when you couldn't just watch whatever you want. Yeah, right, lost aired. At a time when, if you wanted to watch an episode and you weren't sitting on the couch, you know, dvrs were brand new. Most people did not have one. Yeah, I've talked to people making this documentary. Who programmed a VCR to tape this show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was one of those people which most people didn't know how to do, like nobody's parents knew how to program the VCR. You had to be like a teenager, a smart teenager, like not a sports teenager, no offense to whoever but like a nerd teenager. To program a VCR it was like programming a computer. At that time You're like I'm doing computer, I've hacked the VCR to get it to tape. Lost, yeah, lost, yeah. And then you could watch it again. And people were doing that because there were hidden secrets in the episodes which, again, was not a thing before.
Speaker 2:This show, really, you know, maybe like some star trek episodes, people were dissecting like this in like the next generation, which cool, but that was a different thing. That was specifically a sci-fi show. Lost also had this thing to it which was genius and revolutionary, where it also appealed to I'm going to say not nerds, to normal people, because in addition to being a science fiction serialized mystery, in addition to being a science fiction serialized mystery, brain bending, time travel, weird, you know, semi-spiritual monster, crazy show yeah, it's also just really hot people running around on a beach yeah and relationship dramas right.
Speaker 2:So like you can watch it, your mom can watch it, your cousin can watch it, like millions of people watched it, and we all got different things out of it, which was, again, something very unique, hadn't really happened before, hadn't happened later. Like I watched star trek and my nerd friends watched star trek, but none of the cool kids were watching star trek. Lost came along and of the cool kids were watching Star Trek, lost came along and, like the cool kids watched it and did not care about the time travel and the nerds watched it and did not care about the relationships. Yeah, and everybody had a good time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was one of those. I guess I think they call them four quadrant shows or something like that. Yeah, something for everybody. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, as long as Sawyer takes his shirt off, something for everybody. Yeah, like, as long as Sawyer takes his shirt off, you can put.
Speaker 1:You can put as much like fancy, you know astrophysics, whatever in Daniel Faraday's notebook as you want uh, yeah, I had a had a really good friend or I still have a really good friend but I met her in college and, um, yeah, she was a big Sawyer fan. I was like something's wrong with you. He's not a good. There's some toxicity going on there. What's going on?
Speaker 2:He's a very charming man, yep. That's why he's a con man.
Speaker 1:Uh. So for you, what was the most rewarding part um rewarding experience? Uh making getting lost making, getting lost.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, there was something really special in connecting or reconnecting with this fan community all these years later and hearing the stories of how the show impacted real people's lives. In a way, some of the stories I already knew. Some of the stories I already knew, some of the people I already knew, but some I didn't. And there's stuff that's in the movie, stuff that's not even in the movie, that's just, you know, anecdotally. We've talked to so many people that you know, met their spouse because of this show or have lifelong friends because of this show, or still, you know, like real human connection because of a TV show and in our documentary I think it's Damon who says it at the end it's like, you know, a TV show is just a TV show, but like we're all striving for that human connection and the fact that for some people this show brought them together and those people are still together it's like any form of pop culture or media that can do that for anybody is amazing. It's like a miracle that anyone can do any art and bring people together, that anyone can do any art and bring people together. And I think the thing that really moved me in making the documentary was. After we made it, we started doing some theatrical screenings and I got to see that in real life. We brought people together in real life that maybe hadn't seen each other in 15 years you know, since the ending of lost or even longer and you could see that human connection. I'm like, oh, in a tiny way, we did that with this documentary. We brought human beings together and some people met for the first time. We had people at our premiere in LA from, like, different countries all around the world who are now friends because of Lost, because now the internet is so interconnected that, even more so than when Lost was on TV, you can stay connected with your new friend in Germany or your new friend in Mexico or Spain or wherever, and because we sort of dug up this show in a way, people were still talking about it online, people were still into it.
Speaker 2:But you know, we lit a little bit of a fire under the 20th anniversary and we said, hey, everybody pay more attention right now, because we're going to shine a spotlight on it, because we were shocked that ABC wasn't Like it's the 20th anniversary of one of your biggest shows.
Speaker 2:Why are we the ones who have to do this project, but happy to do it. But that was the most rewarding thing was just bringing people together and, you know, for the cast too, like some of them hadn't thought about it or talked about it since the show ended and some of them talk about it every day, like Jorgecia doesn't go very long without someone asking him about lost right, but some of the folks that were only in a few episodes like it doesn't really come up. So it's pretty, pretty cool in that way and that's something I love doing in the pop culture world is just getting to talk with people about something they love, and that's my job, right, and the Scott documentary too. It's like hey, remember that thing you love from 20 years ago. You want to just sit around and talk about that all day.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's just going to be my job now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's that's a hell of a job, man. I mean, that's that's the reason why I do this show is like I just I want to talk to people who love stuff. Tell me why you love this thing. And half this, half the movies or TV shows that people come on to talk about, I've like never seen or sometimes never even heard of. So I'm like cool, this gives me an excuse to connect with you over this thing. Um, so, yeah, that's really, that's really powerful. Um, actually, it's so funny. So, one of my really good friends, um uh, so I'm in Raleigh, north Carolina, and I met one of my good friends here. Uh, we worked at the same post-production studio here in Raleigh and, um, he was a big lost fan and he is. He was friends, still is friends with, uh, jay and Jack of the Jay and Jack podcast In Raleigh, North Carolina.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And so when I was watching Getting Lost, there's footage of Jay and Jack doing some events and stuff like that. There's like some archival. And I spotted my friend. I was like I texted him a picture. I was like I see you in the background. And also I was like I think I might've been there, but I wasn't in the movie. But I like I've been in that space and I've been, I've seen them do that thing. So I was like kind of looking, um, so it's just kind of a it's. It's so wild that this just any show in general, like the way it can connect people because of the internet, like we're ragging on the internet, it's a current dumpster fire, uh, but like the, but people have made friends from all over the world and it's just wild that a show or a movie, she can just bring these people together. Um, and so, yeah, I just I just think that's really cool, it's magic, um. So okay, let's talk about the show itself. Sure, I need to know um, is there a lost character you identify with most?
Speaker 2:I mean. So that changes for me all the time. I've watched the show many times. I'm currently in the middle of a rewatch. I started a rewatch during making the movie and I didn't finish because I got caught up making the movie. So I'm somewhere in season five right now and it changes. And it changes. When I started the show in 2004, five, whenever the DVD came out after the season ended, yeah, Um, it was Charlie. I was, I was a musician, right, I was going to be a bloody rock God. So that was that was my guys Like, oh, if I crash landed, all I care about is getting my guitar out of the brambles by the. I don't care about the airplane parts or whatever. Give me my guitar. Oh my God, it's not broken. I can't believe. None of the strings were broken. Come on, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:That was a sturdy ass case, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was one of those Ovation guitars with the plastic back.
Speaker 1:That the plastic back. That's why it survived the humidity and the temperature changes. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, um, anyway, so charlie was my guy. Who am I speaking to charlie? Uh, charlie, pace, I'm a survivor flight 815 oceanic flight 815.
Speaker 2:Where are you? We're on an island. We're alive. An island.
Speaker 1:I don't know who's this. This is penelope. How did you?
Speaker 2:get this frequency, desmond. Spoiler alert, for I don't know why you're listening to this, but charlie dies, um, not penny's boat, and he's both. And there is this spiritual, metaphorical and like literal handoff where they're like if you were a charlie fan, you are now a hurley fan. Where they're like charlie died and the only person on the island who cares is hurley the people on the boat aren't who they say.
Speaker 1:They are what who are they?
Speaker 2:I don't know, but we didn't get caught with duck.
Speaker 1:No, it's all right, we can call him. We have a walkie, it's okay. Where is it get?
Speaker 2:it. What do you mean if people aren't who?
Speaker 1:they say Where's Charlie?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, brother, claire's sad, but Hurley is like really messed up. And then Hurley's talking to ghost Charlie and all this stuff. So then I'm a Hurley guy, like for the rest of the show, which is more than half the show, timeline wise, not episode wise, cause they get shorter seasons. So I was a Charlie guy and I'm a Hurley guy. Then on rewatches, I'm just a Hurley guy. I'm just like this guy gets it, he's listening to his disc man at the beginning and like, I don't know, he's not hoarding batteries. There must've been more batteries on that plane. There's a thousand tarps and only two AA batteries.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The weirdest shipment of. It's like the weirdest plane where they're transporting tarps. And then as I get older because I'm, you know, in my early 20s when the show comes out college age I'm like I'm going to be a rock star and then I'm just going to be like the fun guy, right, that's, that's my vibe. And then the older I get, catching up to today like the more I realize the only people on that whole show that have anything figured out are Rose and Bernard. So you've been scavenging food and living out in a hut by yourselves.
Speaker 2:People try their whole lives to get themselves a nice quiet place near the ocean where theyard guy Shut up with all your stupid drama who cares about the smoke monsters and the whatever we're just going to like? Hang out over here. We're on a tropical island, we got no responsibilities, our diseases are cured, people are dropping food from the sky. We have no wants. Let's just chill, guys. So you know, as much as I want to be like I'm Lapidus and I'm chill and I can fly a helicopter, I'm like Rosen Bernard all day, every day. They're the only people that know what's up.
Speaker 1:That's so great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what about you yeah?
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, uh, it's tough. But the past. I'm also in the middle of a rewatch, but this time in the past two times, like I, I really love lock. I need to know why you believe that that thing wasn't gonna. I believe that I was being tested, tested, yeah, tested. I think that's why you and I don't see eye to eye sometimes, jack, because you're a man of science. Yeah, what does that make you Me? Well, I'm a man of faith and I didn't think I would ever like him as much as I do, based on when I first watched the show, like way back, when I'm like, kind of your, I root for the standard hero, basically like whoever is presented to me as the hero on the show. I'm like, okay, cool Jack, I'm rooting for Jack, like whatever, um, and just I want him to do what he wants to do.
Speaker 1:I, yeah, and but it's like. But as I've, again, age, seen more, learn more, experience more. I don't know if I necessarily like hardcore and like this is my character, but the more times I'm watching it, the more times I understand lock and like just his, his such strong desire to belong and find meaning and and a lot of times that does not work but that feels like life to me, like half the struggle is trying to find your meaning and then sometimes you don't fucking find out what it is or you think it's one thing and it's actually not that thing at all. And then you become, uh, the man in black and you're like, I don't know what you are now, but I'm still like loving Terry O'Quinn's pivot to a different character.
Speaker 1:Why John Locke? Sure you do. Why john lock? Because he was stupid enough to believe that he'd been brought here for a reason, because he pursued that belief until it got him killed and because you were kind enough to bring his body back here in a nice wooden box, and that that's why I'm like I whenever he turns into the man of like. I'm like man this is. I love this version of Locke cause he's like he's such a fucking badass. I mean, he's a badass anyway, but he's a sad badass.
Speaker 2:And now he's just like he's a sad ass, is what he is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a great character. There's a lot of great characters on that show. It's really tough and that's, I think, something they did so brilliantly is there is almost no matter who you are. There's somebody to identify with, there's somebody to hate, there's somebody to you know, have a big old crush on, there's somebody to be jealous of, there's somebody there's, like so many characters, at least at some point in the show, because they do bring in a lot and then they leave and they, you know there's. It's a lot going on. Yeah, some of the season posters have 30 people, some of them only have 12.
Speaker 1:It's a little bit crazy so we talked about a four quadrant show, basically this rough concept, um, but I mean it appeals to everyone, but do you think there's something specific about it that grabbed people's attention, like right away?
Speaker 2:Um, well, I think a little bit. It's what we had talked about. People hadn't seen anything like it. I mean, first of all, that pilot at the time was the most expensive pilot ever made. It looked like a movie. It was shot on film at a time when people that was falling out of favor, I mean, they bought a freaking airplane and blew parts of it up on Oahu Like it looks amazing. It holds up because it was shot on film and because almost all the effects are practical. I mean the digital ones do not hold up, but all the practical stuff holds up. The locations are amazing, the cast is amazing, like, like I said, TV was not like that.
Speaker 1:Hey, you come here. I need you to get this woman away from these fumes.
Speaker 2:Take her over there, stay with her. If her contractions occur any closer than three minutes apart, call out for me. Oh, you got to be kidding me, I'll be right back, okay, hey, what's your name?
Speaker 2:Jack, and it's hard to imagine now because we're in the era of, like prestige TV and every you know, hbo and Apple TV plus, and like everything is amazing and everything looks like a movie. It did not look like that back then. Tv was not great and they had to fight hard, uh, to shoot it and air it in widescreen Cause this was like the dawn of people having widescreen TVs in 2004. A lot of people still had square TVs so it was letterboxed and that was like a network fight to shoot it on film, to shoot it 16.9, and be like this is what we're doing. And then it's in HD and it's one of the first iTunes shows. It was the first of so many things and I think at the age the early two thousands were such a like look at the shiny new thing era and lost Was that in so many ways.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to say it didn't matter, like what the contents of the show were, but a little bit. It had so many of those hooks going for it that it almost didn't matter what the contents of the show were. The contents were great, but the contents could have been great and if it didn't have all those hooks, how do you get the eyeballs in the first place for people to know that. Yeah, and so I mean, like I think people say it on the doc, but it was a lot of the confluence of all these amazing things, right place, right time in a lot of ways, because people didn't know whether or not you could do a serialized show, whether you could do like a sci-fi mystery show. You know, when that first episode ends, the trees shake and there's the crazy sound. It was like there's dinosaurs in those bushes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I thought when I first watched it.
Speaker 2:Most people did and they're like but you can't do a network TV show with the guy from party of five and there's dinosaurs. You know like, the last show with dinosaurs was the sitcom dinosaurs, that's right. And I was a puppet, yeah. So I think it had a lot going for it. The production value was insane. It was insanely expensive, the cast was amazing. And then you look at the creatives behind it and what they've gone on to do and it's like a once in a lifetime pedigree of like who made this show and just a miracle that it got made at all. And then you know in hindsight you're like well, of course it was a giant hit, but at the time pretty big gamble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. Yeah, I think it was to come out on a four. I was, I was a senior in high school and I'm like at that age where I like cause my folks and I used to like watch TV every night together, like growing up, and then, as I got older, like I was able to get like my own TV in my room and I like started doing my own thing and watching TV and chatting on AIM with my high school friends at the same time, not paying, really paying attention, but loss was the show, the only show that, as I got older, we would still watch together. Um, cause it was like it was, it was our show. Um, and then, as I went off to college, like I tried to like find people.
Speaker 1:I didn't, I didn't walk around and be like, do you like lost? Do you like lost? I was like, if I can find people who like the show, we can watch together. And my friend who I mentioned before um, she was the only person I knew in college who had a VCR in her dorm room and so she was the only one who could record it. I was like, okay, I kind of have to be your friend so I can watch the shows. So that was the way. Yeah, that was the way that we bonded over that and just that communal aspect like you were talking about. Okay, there's six seasons, so many things to talk about. Do you have a favorite moment, episode or scene from the entire show?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they change all the time. But, and there's so many moments that get me a big one for me and we we touch on this in the doc and it's because of my how much the moment resonates with me, but like the moment when the dog swims out after the raft Stay, vincent, go back. Vincent, vincent, go back, go back, go back, vincent, vincent, go back, go back. When vincent is like and that wasn't a scripted moment and that just happened, and like, if that doesn't get you, like, come on where's your heart at?
Speaker 2:yeah, but that knowing, like we all knew, there's no way they're getting off this Island this early in the show. Like that's the end of season one. Like there's no way the first season ends with like half the characters, right.
Speaker 1:Or like something's going to happen yeah, it's going to happen here.
Speaker 2:So like it was fraught with a little bit of tension anyway. And then the dog and like you're just crying, and then the big music and the helicopter shot and the raft goes off and just like, yeah, that end of season one is pretty, pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:And then mr friendly shows up hey, it's a good thing we found you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we survived. And there's a whole group of people on the other Well, ain't that something? Yeah, only the thing is we're going to have to take the boy. What, what'd you say?
Speaker 2:Like that's a hell of a minute of television. That's a chilling line. That is a chilling line in that moment, and then it's like thud wait six months oh man that was.
Speaker 1:I mean, the show had an impact on me, but that was the first show that I remember, at the end of every episode, being so angry because I wanted to know what happened next and I had to wait a whole week, right, and there were things too that like I like I watched it as it was, almost came out then on my first rewatch, when it was available on a streaming platform or whenever.
Speaker 1:I mean I've got all six seasons so I can just watch it whenever, um. But when I started with, like the binge approach, I was like holy shit, I forgot so many things. Like I forgot that this thing that happens in early in season one connects to something later in season three and and all these connections and I was like this, it made me love it more because it's things that I didn't even realize that were actually happening, because I would forget like oh, that character that shows up, I haven't seen them in four seasons, but they're actually important for something that happens later and I'm like oh, that's actually the same person and there'd be like like on the DVDs too.
Speaker 2:It was such a like DVDs were such a thing. At that time I was so into DVD special features. Like that was my film school for all intents and purposes, was like making of documentaries and stuff and watching and lost had some great ones, like that Season one DVD. The making of the pilot is is film school. If you're like how do you work in the worst conditions but have the most money and no time and it's still difficult? But yeah, I mean it's crazy. Um, but like the dvd extras, like later they would have like these character maps that would show you how everyone was connected. Oh right, that's right, this person's that, and then the backstory and then this and then for some, these character maps that would show you how everyone was connected.
Speaker 1:Oh right, that's right.
Speaker 2:This person's that, and then the backstory, and then this, and then, for some reason, Nikki and Paolo are there and you're like, oh, okay, it's all fine Great.
Speaker 1:I was curious if you would naturally bring up expose. I was like 100%.
Speaker 2:That is a highly underrated episode. Razzle, dazzle, ah, autumn Crystal. Bad news Corvette was working for the Cobra, but fear not, he will pay and cut and I will throw it in my top ten every time. If you want to just watch one episode of Lost for fun, it's one of the best.
Speaker 1:That's a good one.
Speaker 2:Because it's standalone and it's very Back to the Future 2, which is my favorite Back to the Future, wherein you get to revisit all the fun moments from the show from a different perspective. And then as a filmmaker you're like, oh, they got to reshoot all of that. But they kind of reuse some of the footage and like, snuck these other actors in.
Speaker 2:Yeah like snuck these other actors in. Yeah, but like I talked to, you know some of these actors the guy who played Arst and these, uh, and Maggie Grace who played Shannon, and it's like they flew them back to shoot like half a scene from the pilot over, just so they could put Nikki and Paolo in it, and you're like that's, that's neat, just as a thing, and Billy Dee Williams is in it. It's a great episode.
Speaker 1:Yes, a hundred percent. I remember when that one came out I was like what the hell is this episode? I was trying. I was like I don't know these people, what's happening? Great. And then when I rewatched it, I was like you know what this is? Television brilliance. I love this, so right.
Speaker 2:It was very annoying when it came out because it didn't move anything forward and it was such a show. And the same with like across the sea, you know there's an abaterno. There's these episodes where it's like I get it, we want this information. And it's really cool, like these self-contained bottle episodes where you're just like great. But especially when they started putting them in the last season because they kept promoting like there's only six episodes left before the finale and you're like yeah, oh, my god, one of them is this.
Speaker 2:Like we don't know, we don't get any new information about what's going on with jack and hurley and I love that paterno, though I love yeah. No, it's a great episode. I just I questioned the placement, like in season four. It's an amazing episode. But you start putting it so late in the series and you're just like but what about what's going on with Kate? Is Sawyer going to be okay?
Speaker 1:The show's almost over.
Speaker 2:I want to hang out with the people that I know Right, Like we've invested all this time or like some of those things. Just give us an extra episode. You know know, like on that week air an episode with our characters and give us abaterno. That's a little too.
Speaker 2:I think that's what people wanted, but uh no. And to your point about like not being able to to binge and having to wait a week, that's also something that, for the most part, has been gone for a long time. It's coming back with some, like HBO shows and Apple shows, and even Netflix tries it here and there, but it was such a thing and such a part of the experience that people watch lost. Now don't get right. It's only available to binge. You can't force someone to watch it one a week, although Michael Giacchino, the composer, when he shows it to his kids and whenever one of his kids turns 15, they get to watch lost and he makes them watch one a week as like I like that's good parenting.
Speaker 2:It feels like this is how you experience this thing, yeah, which I think is very, very appropriate. But what I loved about and this is sort of how that community aspect formed is like it would air and then it would end, and I forget, like it would air at eight and be done at nine or nine and 10, depending on what time zone you're in, or whatever and I would immediately go on the internet, which was maybe even dial up for some of this but and you'd wait, there would be like podcasts that would come out an hour later. There would be message boards that were lighting up the moment after, and I would be one of those people that spent the six days between episodes. There'd be a new podcast every day. There'd be these blogs, there'd be Doc Jensen and Joe Pinionated and people who would write pages and pages and pages dissecting the episodes. So I knew in real time what you found out later on.
Speaker 2:The rewatch is like, oh, this background character was actually from this other episode, yeah, and like in my head I'm like, okay, doing the math, and blah, blah, blah, because you couldn't really rewatch the episode unless you had a VCR or something. But there were also websites that would do like frame grabs of every fifth frame of the episode and they're still online If you go dig. So there's like a site up that has every episode of lost and it'll be like 300 frame grabs from the episode and they're kind of random so they're not great frames. It's hilarious and that was coming out like the day the episode aired no-transcript because I'm not a big reader, but they would explain to me why it mattered yeah, yeah and you love this community of people.
Speaker 2:You meet these people and you're like, wow, I think we're all just best friends because of this show and it was always kind of the same kind of people like different worldviews, different backgrounds and certainly from all over the world, but like really like focused people, people who are really into pop culture and like trying to solve mysteries. We were all trying to solve the mystery of the island in real time. It was like this big detective agency of millions of lost fans on the internet and you felt like you were part of something, like you weren't just watching a show, you were experiencing the show and that's what I think made it so special.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, especially now, like you mentioned earlier, like certain networks are still. I mean, hbo has always been a weekly drop, like that's. That's something they've always done because they've been premium cable, um but with streamers specifically trying weekly releases, I think that's really great. I think, I mean it still is on demand after it comes out, so it's like you can still watch it at any point you want to after it's out there. But yeah, when you're having this, yeah, when you were with so much available now at any time, it does feel like less of an experience to your point, now, at any time. It does feel like less of an experience to your point.
Speaker 1:It feels like I've talked about my disdain for almost the word consume when it comes to media Cause that just it implies that like it's a weird digestive system and you just have to like I'm eating this thing up, like I'm consuming this. It's like a part of me or what I'm just going on to the next thing. Like it feels very I don't know, it feels materialistic, if that's like kind of the right way to put it, but I feel that like there's a almost a lack of experience now like things, what makes us a show or a movie, a theater going experience so special is being there is like is the other people, and whether it's the people online that you chat with immediately after a show or if you're happen to be in a packed movie theater everybody experiencing the same film all at once. I think there's something missing from that, when everything is available all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the theater experience is dwindling very quickly right in front of us and it's very sad. I'm a huge uh advocate for going to the theater. Go to your local theater, even support the chains. As much as you know, they're multinational evil conglomerates. They they will cease to exist if we stop going um and try to not just do it for the big Marvel movies and the Disney properties, because we're losing movies in theaters and once we lose, they're not going to come back.
Speaker 2:We lost the COVID hit and they started putting movies out on streaming for $20, the premium, the PVOD window, which immediately shortened the theatrical window for movies. Yeah, uh, from, we used to get like three months and then it was two months and now it's like three weeks for a lot of movies. Yeah, if that, or it'll be day and date where, like, you can rent it at home or you can go to cinemark. And no one goes to cinemark, right, because they're like I have a 75 inch tv with surround sound in my living room and for my family of four it's half the price to stay home, so people stay home, and that was like a direct COVID hit and Disney experimented with one movie and they're like we made a billion dollars streaming it at home. So theaters are done, yeah, and it's just going to take one more instance like that and theaters are over and then they're never coming back.
Speaker 2:So like, and we lose what you just said, that communal experience that we all grew up on. That was, to me, the best part of movie, why I love movies so much. When I made the, the blockbuster doc, the thing that kept coming up time and time and time again was not, you know, oh, I loved going to blockbuster video because I rented ghostbusters or I rented terminator 2 or I rented jurassic park. It was always because I was there with my mom, because I was there with my grandma, because I went with my brother and we would fight over which movie to pick. People didn't remember what movie they rented. They remembered who they were with.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's like I remember some movies I saw in the theater, but I mostly remember who I went with. You know your first date, your, your best friend, your family, and when that goes away it's gone and we're all just sitting on the couch. And now it's more and more by ourselves, distracted by a phone, and then movies are done and I don't know if I want to live in that world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry, that's my sad rant.
Speaker 1:No, no, I'll pick it back up here in a second. One of those like it got real dark, got real dark. Favorite moments in blockbuster were going, actually in college with my friends and looking at the absurd movies that were there that we had never heard of. Like that was the first time I saw a movie called ginger dead man starring Gary Busey Um, and I think snakes on a plane had come out. And there was another movie called snakes on a train that was sitting there in blockbuster and it was like this is hilarious and also like the artwork.
Speaker 1:Like I've had so many conversations on this podcast where someone has said I want to watch this movie and I'm like I've never seen that but I know what the artwork looks like because I saw it in blockbuster and was just captured by the images on there. And you're right, like, even just like, and just go to a rental store is like I don't remember what I'm picking out, but I'm remembering who I with and it's fun to think about these experience. It's the experience, again, around art. Like even if you're not you're not blockbuster watching a thing, you're trying to decide what you're going to watch, but you're still there with someone contemplating or fighting. Like I want to watch this, I want to watch Ninja Turtles, I want to watch something else. Like, yeah, having that little conversation is always fun to remember.
Speaker 1:Okay, last question I have before you go. We're going to keep it positive here. I love it. You were trapped on a desert island, sure, on a desert Island, and you have a working TV and a working Blu-ray player. Uh, what are your five TV box sets that you want to have with you? And they, none of them can be lost.
Speaker 2:Oh man, tv boxes, none of them can be lost. I'm trapped on a desert Island so I'm going to want things that had a pretty long run. I think, okay, um, oh man, but all the best shows had short runs. I mean, you can watch it again. Yeah, it's tough, the stuff I. I tend to go back. I'm gonna, I think, throw some curveballs. I'm gonna go with the west wing. Oh that is solid choice shows.
Speaker 2:I've watched that as many times as I've watched lost um and if I thought there was a market for it I'd be making a West wing documentary. But I mean, there might be, there is, but the politics behind it, I think, would crush my soul. The aspirational Bartlett presidency is just just make everybody super sad. Yeah, I can't spend too many years thinking about that. I have a Bartlett for president t-shirt that I wear.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And if I could stomach writing him in and not doing my civic duty. Yeah, west Wing is up there and that's a long one. That's a good. You know, kill some time. I'd put Breaking Bad in there, that's a good. That's like shift in tone from West Wing pretty hard and I think, it's, it's great, it's just like quality storytelling.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of the ones where they really knew the whole roadmap the whole way and it's like well executed all the way. I would exclude the whatever that follow-up movie thing was I don't know. Oh yeah, I wouldn't be in the box at any point. El Camino was I don't? Oh yeah, I wouldn't be in the box at anyway.
Speaker 1:El Camino Sure that was what it's called.
Speaker 2:I don't know I'm going to go Freaks and Geeks. It's not enough. It's like a little snack in between. It's just one season, yeah, yeah, it's just the one season. I go with one that has a lot, just for making my pop culture brain have a fun time. Beverly Hills 90210.
Speaker 1:Okay, I haven't seen a single episode of that show.
Speaker 2:I believe there are 10 seasons of that show, oh wow, each one having 22 to 26 episodes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, network TV, like they're going to have all the episodes. I watched it all the way through a couple of times.
Speaker 2:I was on tour with a band once and that's all I had in the back of the van. I just watched.
Speaker 1:Beverly Hills 90210.
Speaker 2:Every day. It's great, it's bad. It's what's great about bad TV from that era All right, good, trash it ran from, like, 1990 to the year 2000,. Which is a perfect time frame.
Speaker 1:I do remember it as a 90s show, so that makes total sense All of the 90s in one show, one more.
Speaker 2:I got some drama. I got some comedy with the freaks and geeks. My So-Called Life is the last one. Another one-seasoner way ahead of its time. It's just exactly my era. I'm exactly that age. Of this is what the 90s was. To me, that's like the real version of what Beverly Hills 90210 was. The realistic Jordan Catalano in his little band. Oh yeah, in five minutes I'm going to wish I could take back all five of those answers and give you five new TV shows, except the West wing, that one's perfect.
Speaker 1:Taylor, thanks so much, man. This was such a blast to talk with you. Thank you for loving loss so much. You made a documentary about it. Watching the documentary, maybe it may be nostalgic and maybe rewatch the show again, and maybe re-watch the show again. So thanks for that. Thanks for having me. So I just finished my most recent re-watch of Lost and every time I go back to the island I leave with something new to appreciate. This time I keep thinking about how there are so many characters trying to do what they believe is the right thing, and a lot of times it doesn't work out until it does, and I think some of us don't realize that that also applies to the real world. We're scared that trying to do the right thing won't work, so we just don't try at all. And I feel like, especially, especially now, we need to remind each other of this. We need to have the back of our community in speaking up for what is right, because, as Jack Shepard once said, if we can't live together we're gonna die alone.
Speaker 1:I absolutely love Lost and I can't thank Taylor enough for coming on the show to talk about it with me. You should rent or buy Getting Lost right now on Amazon or Apple TV or any of the other video on demand sites. I also have to extend a polar bear size. Thank you to you for joining us today in our discussion. If you want to check out more of Taylor's filmography, I've got links to some of that stuff in the show notes.
Speaker 1:So what did we miss? Lost is about a whole bunch of stuff, so I'm sure there's something that we didn't cover. Did we need to give Sawyer some more love? Should we have talked about the others more? Is Benjamin Linus the greatest TV villain of all time? I want to hear your thoughts, so hop on over to the Nuthouse discord server. You can find links to that in the show description as well. And thank you to everyone who is supporting the Film Nuts podcast on Patreon, because without you, well, the show just wouldn't be as fun. If you haven't signed up yet, head over to patreoncom slash Film Nuts for more information and sign up for some cool perks.
Speaker 1:If you enjoyed the show today, please go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform of choice to stay up to date with all of our episodes. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, please leave a rating and review to help us reach more awesome folks like yourself. Our theme this season is brought to us by J Mac, our artwork is designed by Madungwa Subhuti and all episodes of the film that's podcast are produced and edited by me, taylor D Adams. If you want to get in touch, you can email film nuts podcast at gmailcom or follow us on Instagram and Tik TOK at film nuts podcast. And, like I said, don't forget to join the nut house discord community Absolutely free, by checking out the link in the show notes. Thank you all again. So much for joining me today and until next time, namaste.