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The Film Nuts Podcast
Your host Taylor D. Adams talks to artists, musicians, writers and others about their favorite films and shows, and asks them to share how they have been inspired or affected. Hopefully we can get to the root of why we love what we watch, why we’re crazy about a movie or *nuts* about a show…get it?
The Film Nuts Podcast
BERGMAN ISLAND with Adam Protz
A calm film that still hits like a memory. We head to Faro for a slow, sunlit walk through Mia Hansen-Løve’s Bergman Island and talk about why a “vibe movie” can carry more emotional weight than a dozen plot twists. With composer and interviewer Adam Protz, we unpack the gentle shock of moving beyond IP-driven habits into cinema that breathes—where sweaters match ferries, windmills hold quiet revelations, and a film-within-a-film mirrors the delicate strain of a creative partnership.
Adam traces his journey from easy-listening piano into the textured worlds of Nils Frahm, Ólafur Arnalds, and Hania Rani, then draws a line to Bergman Island’s unshowy craft. We dig into how place becomes an instrument, why the inner story burns hotter than the outer romance, and how boundaries in feedback can feel both defensive and necessary. Along the way, we explore sampling as a metaphor for cinema literacy—discovering echoes in Seventh Seal, then chasing the source to hear the original heartbeat.
What emerges is a portrait of taste in motion: keeping love for superhero spectacle while making room for small, precise choices that invite a second look. No Bergman syllabus required; the references land without gatekeeping, and the meta touches stay human. If you’re curious how a quiet film can feel restorative, or how partners create without smothering each other’s endings, you’ll find a warm, thoughtful companion here—part travelogue, part craft talk, part love letter to watching closely.
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I know. Saraband.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Saraband. I don't have that one. Ah fuck.
SPEAKER_00:I'm a sucker for these films where it's like so calming and meditative and I almost love films where very little actually happens. This film does deal with like some serious dark stuff, but somehow it always feels cute. I just find this film so goddamn relaxing.
SPEAKER_01:Sometimes it's a deep emotional gut punch. Other times it's an action-packed thrill ride. But what if, for lack of a better term, it's just a vibe? My name is Taylor D. Adams, and this is the Film Nuts Podcast, a show about why we love what we watch. Today we'll be taking a look at how a love of film deepens and lengthens over time to include movies we might never have thought we might be exposed to. Never mind fall in love with. After a barrage of IP-driven movies by sheer serendipity, composer and producer Adam Protz found himself in front of a screen being swept off to the Faroe Islands in the North Atlantic by way of the 2021 film Bergman Island, where two writers work through their next screenplays through a rather chill hour and 52-minute runtime. Adam and I chat about the director Mia Hansen Love's inspiration for this film. We also chat a little bit about the nerdy intricacies of noticing little details within a movie, and what it's like to be on the other side of the microphone. Adam happens to interview famous musicians for part of his job. So book your ferry ticket now. Here's Adam Pratt talking about Bergman Island on the Film Nuds podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Now it's history.
SPEAKER_02:Up it all my cost.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I just ate some food from a market store that was quite burnt, and I've still got the burnt toast kind of lingering.
SPEAKER_01:Oh no, that's that that's not good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was like£12, and I was eating it like, oh man.
SPEAKER_01:You took the first bite and you're like, I should have gotten my money back there.
SPEAKER_00:Well, a trait of being English is we're too polite to ever like we would only complain if the food like literally caught fire or something.
SPEAKER_01:Just grin and bear it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. There was another time. I don't there was another time, like I don't eat meat, and there's a time where I realized there was chunks of meat and I didn't complain that time. Oh well. I should have no come on. That that was taking it too far. I fucking I sit definitely should have taken it back.
SPEAKER_01:I was gonna say so. Does the veganism sometimes contrast with being so polite English?
SPEAKER_00:I just I just basically stopped eating it without complaining. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh you're you're a kinder person than I would have been, I mean, excuse me.
SPEAKER_00:You'll be on the tube in London, and if someone like Elber did in the face back, so then you'd be like, oh sorry, you'd be the one you'd you'd apologise to each other, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's that kind of I mean sometimes I wish uh Americans were that apologetic.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, but it also it becomes really passive aggressive sometimes in a weird way. If that the politeness can become super forced at times, so that is oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Um sometimes honesty, sometimes indirectness, and honesty is way better than just being polite no matter what, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, uh here in the American South, we speak passive aggressive uh very fluently.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You have a species called Karen's, I understand. Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, it it's so great to have you on, man. Um, I know we've been uh connecting for a while, and I'm excited to talk to you um A about A about Bergman Island and also just to get uh get to know you a little bit more. Um, so it feels kind of cool to uh interview someone who also interviews people for his job. So tell me a little bit about how you got into interviewing people in the music industry.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's really out of my comfort zone being on this side of uh the micro. Uh literally, I was working in a pub. I was pouring a Guinness for a guy, heard him saying he writes he owns a music magazine. Sorry, and I just mentioned I've done some music writing. I went to university and did music. So uh as I handed him his Guinness, I said, Oh, I I do music writing, and ten years later I'm that's my day job, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And now you're here, yeah, yeah. Who have you uh who have you interviewed that you've really enjoyed talking to?
SPEAKER_00:So I enjoyed the famous ones because it's super surreal, and so like David Guess is the most the biggest celebrity oh wow I've interviewed. That was funny because you have to as nice as that was, you also have to deal with like super funny PR people. They like changed the day. I was meant to meet him in person in a hotel, and then suddenly one morning I was like, it's today or it's not happening. So I had to change a shift at my part-time job to make it I had to literally text work and be like, uh, I can't come in, I need to come in an hour later than planned because I'm interviewing David Getterin. Oh wow. So that uh so him, Amy Lee from Evanescence, which was my first ever gig. Oh wow I went to, so that was I was like basically crying down the phone. That's so cool. To her and and Moby, Moby was really, really cool.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and then like the more niche ones, people in my kind of music genre, like Hanya, Rani, Nils from Oliver Arnolds are like, yeah, that probably means more to me because like their music has been really, really significant in my life, so it was great to get to speak to them, and it was amazing.
SPEAKER_01:So I mean, this is what this show is all about, just kind of the meaning behind the art. So, like, why does this like uh this specific subgenre of music that you're into, why why does interviewing those folks mean?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I guess when I did music, I was doing a lot of composition, and um uh uni, I didn't appreciate this at the time, and I I do get it now, but at the time they were really kind of pushing us to do the most kind of weird eternal experimental music compositions, and you know, when you're like 18, 19, you just want to write sort of cute, nice sounding music that you think people actually want to listen to, not like super intellectual. Um, and then when I got into those guys, that was when first I got into Ludovico Arnaud, who's like really easy listening. Do you know him? He's like super easy listening, piano. So when I told people, my peers at uni, I was into that, people like really frowned upon it. They're like, What? Because you member listen to be like, you know, Beethoven, like so. So when I mentioned him, oh, okay. They were like, and then so eventually when I discovered the three guys I mentioned, and Hania, Oliver Nils from I loved them because I don't know, it's kind of quite easy listening, but at the same time, it is really interesting the way they've recorded it, some of the harmonies they use, the way the the ways they've recorded the piano and the strings, that a lot of thoughts gone into that. It's not just like the most glitzy, lovely studios, and they'll use like crazy old synthesizers and stuff, and they're not scared to you know, there'll be moments in the music that isn't that easy listening, they'll have some more darker moments, and yeah, so I was really happy to discover whether or not my old lecturers would agree with my uh um me saying they're interested in music or not, but yeah, that's been really influential for me. Yeah, I don't listen to I N Audi as much anymore because yeah, it's it is a bit too easy on the air, I realise now.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. So is it like when you say easy listening, is it like is it background music or is it just something that kind of soothes your headspace, I guess?
SPEAKER_00:I guess I love music than is almost applicable to any moment. I mean, particularly them like Oliver, Niels, Hanio, like I could listen to them anytime any time of day. Um yeah, I mean it's perfect for like focus, you know, kind of study kind of vibes, or I think it has a real energy to it. I can listen to it while I'm walking. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd like do a workout to it, but um yeah. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe a yoga workout.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I just literally 20 minutes ago finished my rewatch of Bergman Island. And I remember this the first time I watched it, but upon this time I was thinking how this is such a to me, it's such a pleasant film. And I can kind of see uh a connection between this style of music that you're gonna appreciate into how it can translate to almost a film like Berkman Island.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oh the coin just dropped. I this morning I was like reading the trivia and going through the casting crew, and I couldn't find a composer. And I'm not sure. Do you remember there's like some moments of harp music? Yeah, some kind of like I assume some kind of more traditional Swedish-y music, I think. I haven't managed to ascertain if that's music written for the film or if uh Mia Hansen Love or the music supervisor just found that music and thought it was um yeah, there's no I couldn't on IMDB I could not find uh composer attached. So this sounds terrible because I'm a composer and I didn't look up the button as far as like the the the connection or or the vibe between the the type of music that you gravitate toward and then this film. I appreciate the observation for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this film, music aside, has a kind of I don't want to say ease easy watch, easy watching, I suppose easy listening. But I feel like there's something there about just sitting in the moment and experiencing the story for what it is.
SPEAKER_00:I'm a sucker for these films where it's like so calming and meditative, and I almost love films where very little actually happens.
SPEAKER_05:So we're on a ferry in the Baltic Sea from the mainland to Gotland. It's a four-hour ride, and it's spring. Or maybe it should be summer. It's late summer. A young woman looks into the distance. Her name is Amy. She's about my age, or maybe a bit younger. Let's say she's 28. She's the main character of the film.
SPEAKER_00:It's like a palette cleanse from all the MCU movies, and you know big blockbusters where you're kind of being beaten over the head with storyline and action. I love that not that much takes place. There's obviously there's a storyline and there's character development and plot for sure. But you couldn't point to like 20 key moments of storyline, could you? In this moment, I wouldn't say. It just feels like a really nice flow of the film.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, how did this get on your your radar? Like what drove you to watch this or discover this?
SPEAKER_00:Uh Janelle, can I give a long-winded answer? I I've been on a journey. I've been on such a journey as uh God, this sounds so pretentious, but as a like a movie watcher, I've been on such a when I finished uni more than 10 years ago, I like tried to carry on the culture of because at uni doing music, I would go to a lot of concerts, and I think I was a lot more well-read while I was at uni. You know, when you're a student, you kind of you're in that mindset of like, oh, I must soak up knowledge and culture. Yeah. And then I tried to carry that on for a while, watching like the more quote unquote serious movies, and then as the MCU thing started taking off. So literally, me and my friend went to the cinema to watch literally a periodrama, got there too late to watch that periodra, and then the only thing left that we could feasibly see was um the second Avengers movie. That's Age of Old Tron, right? I think so. Um, yeah, watched that, and then I was like, nope, forget all that serious stuff. I went fully down the superhero rabbit, and obviously, yeah, the next 10 years was just MCU and obviously DC trying to compete. So I remember watching like Batman v Superman and all that stuff, and um and then thank god I anyway. No, I had so much fun with those movies, don't get me wrong. But um yeah, I then my now current girlfriend, she's a film programmer, that's so her job is to help um independent cinemas like curate films and book their films for their programs.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, thank God she's really helped me. I can just see her getting home with our dog. Um, yeah, I owe so much in terms of my like taste in film. Now she's really I would describe myself as uh am I allowed to swear? Yes, I would describe myself as a movie wanker. Like I now have a movie subscription. Movies, the like they really curate all the foreign movies, all the like indies, and yeah, movies got all the you know French, German, Korean, everything, Indian, whatever. Um, no, I still mix it up. I don't I love watching all kinds of films. I still watch the odd superhero film. I watched Fantastic Four recently, Superman. Um, but I can't just watch those movies anymore. I love watching the more understated stuff, and yeah, I'm such a sucker for films like Bergam Island where it's like really understated, calming, and like I said, not I feel like the more casual movie guy would say there's not much going on in this movie. I would disagree, I'd say this film has so many layers, it's so it's super meta, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. There's this there's the outer film, there's the film within the film, yeah, and then that film itself kind of well, we'll get into this properly, but then that film, the actors in that film start appearing as themselves talking to the characters. I'm not I'm really making it sound more complicated than it is, but um yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Do you still enjoy it? Enjoy love making love with me. Yeah, but I need you to say it.
SPEAKER_01:I never mentioned it to my girlfriend. She's jealous of you. Only you you if you looked at like the the plot breakdown, like on a sheet of paper, you could be like, this looks pretentious as hell. Like I don't think but the way that everything is conveyed is just it's really soothing. Like it's very it's very mundane and everyday, and everything's everything's gorgeous, and people are pretty, and like that helped that helps kind of like transition into this this this metaness.
SPEAKER_00:Well, on the pretentious thing, I would just say the first time I watched it, and we almost talked about this before before the fact, but I I had never seen a Bergman film, and on the first thing, I still fully enjoyed it. I'd there was no point I had to pause the film and be like, I'd probably be enjoying this more if I had seen even though there's points of the film where they're literally um talking to real-life Bergman staff people, and I think Bergman's son has a cameo towards the end of the film. You have to look up IMDB to get that tidbit, but yeah. I don't think you have to be a big film bro or cinephile to enjoy this personally, maybe maybe I'm wrong about that. Did you did you feel like that way that you have to be Yeah?
SPEAKER_01:Because I that was that was actually similar to me. Like I had seen I learned generally about uh Angmar Bergman when I was studying film in college, and but never dove deep into any one particular piece of work. Um, probably last year, yeah, maybe late last year, I watched Seventh Seal. Um, and because that's the one I had heard of like the most, and I enjoyed it. Uh, so then watching uh Bergman Island, I was like, they're referencing so many things, but there were so many of his films that but the story that I'm currently in with this movie, I don't feel like I'm missing any context. Like I might it might be beneficial if I had seen these, but the conversations uh between Chris and Tony about uh Ingmar Bergman, like you can understand their points of view without knowing the bodies of work, which I think is really great. And one of the things I actually wanted to touch on, like for you, um, because you hadn't seen any Bergman films, like what was it like when you after this did you watch Berg a Bergman film or many Bergman films? What was that like?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think the only change really was uh quite a few times they talk about Bergman as a person, and you could tell they talk about how he had like nine kids from four different marriages.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I've also um in fact we rescheduled this, didn't we? And I I at that point I hadn't seen a film, so it really worked out nicely because I've now seen the seventh seal as well. Um I didn't actually pick up any overt references to I think Seventh Seal is one of his older films, right? So I don't think they actually I don't know if they filmed any of the seventh seal on the island, Faro in Sweden. They might have done. Um I think that was more his later films. Um I think it was more when they talk about him as a person, and through the seventh seal, you could tell what a really super intense filmmaker he is. Right, I I definitely got that. Um yeah, just on the seventh seal, there's you do you remember the scene, the procession scene, where all the crazy fundamentalist religious people come through? That was one of those moments in film where I was like, I swear that's influenced like 10 films I've seen, and I couldn't think which ones, but I was recognising so many sort of points of reference, like the way it like panned across the audience of people, and then it would like do a close-up of each of the main characters, and I couldn't tell you which films, maybe some like Chris Nolan films or something like that, but um yeah, so yeah, it only affected that sense, just like I think I understand more them talking about Bergman as a human being, yeah. Cause I was reading on IMDb, like each time Chris goes to different points of the island, that's referencing a different film. So I would like to go back and watch Bergman Island when I've watched more Bergman films. I'm trying to build up the courage to watch Persona, that looks like super intense.
SPEAKER_01:They do talk about that one a fair amount in Bergman Island.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's his masterpiece.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that made me very curious as well. And maybe yeah, maybe I'll have to jump on that trade.
SPEAKER_00:I watched uh I watched the trailer. I was like, I need to be in the right frame of mind, I think.
SPEAKER_01:I've I've had that a lot recently, but like, okay, I'm here's the movie, I want to watch this movie. I start watching it, and immediately I go, for whatever reason, I am not in the right headspace to enjoy this. Not that I am not enjoying the movie, it's nothing against the movie. I just want to take a break and come back to it. So one thing I was thinking about as I was re-watching this is if I approach it from uh a musician's standpoint, but I say that not specifically talking about the music of this film, but I think about the fact that so much music production now, um, especially within uh electronic and hip-hop and pop, has to do with a lot of sampling. And so for me, is watching Bergman Island kind of like hearing the sample first and then going and watching Bergman films and realizing where the actual thing came from. Because you you mentioned that you like watched Seventh Seal and then immediately clocked that other filmmakers had used something from Seventh Seal. I mean, I don't know if you have used have done like samples in your work, or I'm assuming I'm assuming you've interviewed people who sample their work. So, what is what is that process like when you almost discover originally where a sample is from?
SPEAKER_00:Uh sometimes it just feels like the super nerdy thing, but um it's amazing because well, with hip hop, obviously a sample can be from like you know, 70s song, and it's like the most different context you can imagine. And then yeah, when it's like a 70s sort of Maytown song that's kind of got really cutesy lyrics, and then suddenly it's on this song where someone's rapping about how tough life in a district of Los Angeles is it's incredible how the context changes so drastically. Um yeah, um I don't know, it's really funny because I'm I really want to try using sampling as a way to inspire. I I'm really inspired to use sampling as a way to as the starting point of a track, if that makes sense. I've only ever like added samples to an existing track I'm working on. And that's interesting because I was reading that um the island itself was like Mia Hansen Love's starting point for this movie. That was where all the inspiration like hit her. By the way, did you know um Owen Wilson was nearly the lead? Tim Ruff's character that I found that mind-blowing. It was first Greta Gerwig and I I hope I say this right, Jonathan Choturo, the guy who's in Transformers, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Jonathan? Really?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Then they dropped out.
SPEAKER_01:That's that's an age difference. That's yeah, that's a significant age difference.
SPEAKER_00:Uh then it was Owen Wilson for a long time, and he dropped out like a few weeks before they started. So uh Mia Hansen Love, the director, ended up shooting as much of the film she could without the male lead. And then they ended up getting some. I find that so interesting because um I love details of when characters keep their own accents in a film, and I think that was just like a necessity they had to go with. Because I I seriously doubt Greta Gerwig and Owen Wilson, like Greta was going to be a German lady, and I can't imagine I've never heard Owen Wilson do a British accent.
SPEAKER_01:I imagine no, I mean there's a lot of like there's just a lot of this is an international film, like from the people in it from where the funding came from. Yeah, and I think that's what's wild, is like no one I don't I don't feel I mean, I haven't uh dove deep into the uh nationality of every single actor in this film, but I'm looking at it and I think anybody who came on could probably just keep their accents in a way. Like if Owen Wilson didn't play, I imagine he'd just play Owen Wilson, like he would just have his accent in the middle of the phone. And it still works. I think Tim Roth is a great choice, though. I think he did a great job because he's he's got like a enough enough broodiness uh about him.
SPEAKER_05:When do you see the house from through glass darkly, but I couldn't find it.
SPEAKER_02:There isn't one, never was.
SPEAKER_05:What? Put a picture on the map.
SPEAKER_02:They built a facade and they shot the interiors of the studio. Bergman Safari babes.
SPEAKER_00:Saying babes at the end of the sentence is like the most super British thing you could ever. Yeah, I think he probably just said that as a take in a really British way, and she just kept that in. And uh there's like a bit where Chris is on the phone to her mum speaking in German. So I I have no doubt she just worked that into the script just because Vicky Kreeps is German, and and if it had been Greta Gerwigs, that would have been an American character.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I imagine so.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so that's really interesting.
SPEAKER_01:This movie is very much about the the place, it's about the location, it's about the uh pharaoh or faro, uh depending on what language you're speaking it in, uh islands. Um have you have I was like, do you have you been there? I mean it's closer to you than it is to me, so no.
SPEAKER_00:Funnily enough, Scandinavia is like now yeah, because you've been to Iceland, right? I uh I've never been to Scandinavia or the Nordic countries. I really I've suddenly not just because of this film, but well, maybe partly because of this film, I've started really feeling appall to like Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and definitely Iceland as well. So yeah, that did not influence my watch at all. I've never been Sweden. Um, yeah, I don't know, that island, it looks beautiful, but I I love visiting like big cities when I go to countries like Sweden. Yeah. You mentioned the fact I'm vegan, I'd be terrified to like try and find vegan options on this remote Swedish island, right? Can you imagine?
SPEAKER_01:You're like, what are my options, guys?
SPEAKER_00:Ooh, uh, I don't know. Yeah. But then if you've got like these like super cinephile people turning up, they probably do have to cater for some, you know, gluten-free people. And yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_01:That's true. I mean, is there because of this location though, and not not specifically like um sorry, this specific location, but are you are you someone who is inspired by like the place that you're in or places that you have been or want to be?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think subconsciously, yeah. I've I've done that's a really deep question. I've never given that much for when you say want to be, as in somewhere you'd like to be, but you're not currently.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, like someplace that you've seen a picture of, or you watch this movie and you're like, that looks cool, or you watch some some other film or TV show or uh video online that is other location that just like speaks to you for some reason.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. I I was obsessed with moving to Berlin for a long time, and now my current situation is I'm trying to move from my hometown to London, and yeah, both those places I find really inspiring. Berlin at one point was just like where everyone in that kind of neoclassical genre that we were talking about earlier, like everyone was there.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Like Nils from Johan Johansson, Dustin O'Halloran. Oliver Antnos was spending a lot of time there. Um yeah. Um and I'm trying to move to London. Uh yeah, London is such a huge source of inspiration.
SPEAKER_01:In what way?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Just the culture, all the different food you can eat. Uh there's so much more music. I whenever I go to a concert, it's in London, and I find live music so inspiring. So I'm yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And just and where where are you now? How far away from London are you?
SPEAKER_00:I'm not even that far, it's only a 20-minute train ride into a town called St Albans. So um Yeah, it's like almost a suburb of London without being a suburb. But you can tell you're not in London, it doesn't have that vibe at all. There's not like a concert or a play or something going on every night of the week, you know.
SPEAKER_01:So okay.
SPEAKER_00:I understand.
SPEAKER_01:I I want to go back to talking about um your your your girlfriend, the film, the film programmer. I'm like, I kind of want to talk to her too. Uh but like so I I want to know, yeah. What um what like what is the I imagine she's played a role in kind of your your ongoing film education? Are there is she the one that got you on train with watching a movie like this or showed this one particularly to you?
SPEAKER_00:Um I probably wouldn't otherwise. I actually watched this on my own. Both times I've watched it on my own if that influences anything that we're gonna discuss whatsoever. But um It's hard. This is a big like sliding doors thing. Like, would I have ever watched this movie? Yeah. If it wasn't my girlfriend, possibly not. So I the first time I ever watched a quote-unquote movie film was with Anna, and she had to really convince me. I was like, I remember we watched a super slow French film, and I had to really warm into it because you know, I was just used to films where it's just like constantly hitting your dopamine receptors where it's action, you know, Marvel characters flying through the sky cracking jokes as they're punching the bad guy in the face. Yeah, God, I can't remember the name of the film. It was about a French guy who like like finds a refugee like hiding in his hometown, and he like takes him in, and it was just yeah, super slow-moving movie, and like just gradually went from there. And now Mia Hansen Love, the director of Bergman Island, is now one of my favourite directors.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, anyone listening, I would definitely recommend um One Fine Morning that stars Leia Soudu. And the I've only seen Yeah, yeah, she's awesome. And uh Things to Come, which stars Isabel Hooper. I say she's one of my favorites. I've only seen three movies so far.
SPEAKER_01:One of the one of the great things that I think this movie um kind of presents, and also the way that you're talking about this contrasting tastes in movies that you are developing. Like this film is very much all about contrast. Like there's parts of the film where um uh Chris is hanging out with the local film student. I forgot, I forgot his name, uh please like hanging out with him, and he's explaining to her that the differences between the north and the south beach are you know, one's full of tourists uh and really big waves, the other is there's No one there, but there's a lot of jellyfish, but also the jellyfish don't sting. And then there's you know just the dichotomy of the seasons that exist in that area of the world where that they're in summer, it's gorgeous. Um, yeah, I think I think uh yeah, Tim Ross's character makes a uh crack about try living here in January, uh be a little bit different, and I think that's I think that's kind of important to uh this film is that idea of contrasts. And one of my favorite, one of my favorite lines. I think I I noted this the first time I watched it, I was waiting for it the second time.
SPEAKER_05:Don't you think it's too nice? Too beautiful, all this calm and perfection. I find it oppressive.
SPEAKER_01:I really like gravitated toward that because I can totally understand. So did I be yeah, being in a place that's so peaceful, you yourself feel like you are yeah, being oppressed or like being weighted down or bogged down, I guess. Um what do you I mean what do you think about the these contrasts that exist within I guess the creative process for lack of a better term?
SPEAKER_00:I was just gonna pick up on that quote. I love that quote. I related to that as well. It's like I love going out of nature, but um because we're always you know locked into our devices, it's almost sometimes scary to like just go into nature and just try and be and not be on your phone the whole time. And and it's kind of yeah, nature's quite awe-inspired even almost overwhelming. Um yeah, as I said, I'd love to go to the island, but I can imagine that kind of there's so little going on in that island as well at the same time. So there's almost that fear of that, even though the point is you go and unwind and just enjoy the nature and the scenery and do a bit of bergaman nerdy stuff. It would it'd be nothing like a city break, right? Having all the like touristy spots and museums and what have you, restaurants. So um yeah, and that also feeds into another big uh theme in the film. I think it's also about um kind of the like the beauty and agony of the creative process, the kind of the joy of it, but also questioning yourself with every me of you. I think she was also saying I guess it's hard enough being a in so in the film she's a screenwriter, but I cut it wasn't clear whether or not she because Tim Ruff's definitely a director, I think, in the film, because he does like QA's in the film and he's like doing selfies of people. I couldn't see it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he seems like a regular director, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It wasn't clear if she's a screenwriter and a director or not. Um I I think what she was saying was writing here is gonna be more intimidating than usual, a, because of the beautiful scenery, and B. She's in that windmill where Bergman had literally filmed scenes from his film. That's actually my favourite scene of the movie is where essentially nothing happens. Do you remember the part where they've just settled into that property? Chris. Chris! It's that kind of POV filmmaking where you're seeing things as he's seeing it, and he's like trying to find her in the cottage, going, Chris, and then he comes out, and then he comes around the corner, and you see she's in the windmill. She's like at the top of the windmill waving. I don't know. I can't, I don't know why I love that scene so much. It's just the way it's filmed and everything. Like, oh, it was just so beautiful and the way it captures the scenery. And yeah, I feel like I did not answer your question at all. What was the like overarching question?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I think that there's just something to be said about this film. Yeah, just contrast. Because I mean, like I mean, going back to kind of the stuff that you enjoy watching, it could be a superhero movie, and then it could be something like this. Um, and as far as like the the the music that you listen to, like you listen to hip-hop, but you're very much into the neoclassical space. So I I kind of I don't I'm trying to almost like figure out my question as I'm trying to ask it, but I think I think I know how to answer it. Yeah, well, go ahead then. You might know the answer well.
SPEAKER_00:Because when you said contrast, when you used to mention contrast, the first thing I thought about was how the film within the film is like way more dramatic than Chris and Tony's story. Yes, because with Chris and Tony, there's the most dramatic thing is that there's like they have a really cute relationship, and there's like this slight hint that all's not as perfect. There's like hints of um and I feel like the film would I don't think this is a huge spoiler, but I think the film ends with a slight like question in the air of how where they're at in there. Um but the film Chris is writing, and um, yeah, for all the listeners, as she describes it, we then basically see the film, right? On the yeah, um, yeah, I'm sure you'd agree that film is way more dramatic than uh Tony and Chris's story. So the film with uh Mia Wasikowska and and Anders Daniel Lee. Yeah, that was just how I thought to answer that. That story is way more dramatic. It's like a really tumultuous affair that they're having while they're at this wedding, which is also on Ferrari Island. And um, so it's contrast, but I love the way Mia Hansen Love she deliberately like blurs that story with the like I don't know what to call the main story to be honest. Um but um little details like when they first get the ferry to the island, Tim Roth and Vicky Creeps, she's wearing a jumper, like a mustard colour jumper that like perfectly matches the colour scheme of the ferry, and then when the film characters get the ferry, Mia Wazikowska is also wearing an item of I'd say I think it's a jacket, maybe it's also the same colour, and it perfectly matches the colours of the fairy. That's such a nerdy thing.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's what's so I mean, that's what's so cool about something like this is that they're you know it's so meditative that we can look at something and focus in on these details because there isn't a lot of like overstimulation, like we don't have to, our attention isn't drawn to one particular thing within each scene. Um and you know, uh talking about the the ending, like as and you know, I love an ambiguous ending as much as the next person. Um, but I feel like that's that's kind of cool because like I think the the story with the movie within the movie um to me is like is is based on Chris and Tony's past, like something that happened a while back for whatever reason. Like that's kind of how I read it. And then the place where they are at now, like they've grown from that. Like it's less dramatic, but the tension is still there, but also the love is still there, like they are very supportive of one another, even if they're not necessarily supportive in the right way to each other, like they are still there and they're still trying. Um, and so I think having something like this where you can sit and you can read into it, and you can you can discover however many layers you want to, but it's also not something that you even need to. Like you can just kind of hang out with these characters in this cool location and take it however you wish. Like, I watched this again, I was like, Yeah, I want to go, I want to go there. That looks cool.
SPEAKER_00:That's the crazy thing. Yeah, I the first time I watched it, I wasn't really that locked into it. And then obviously, when you're watching it knowing you're about to talk about it on a podcast, it's a super different experience. So um, that was when I more noticed these little weird color scheme details, and um but yeah, the thing that plays my mind is how that film within the film, if that was the whole film, I think people would still go away fully satisfied. Because that's still an awesome that's what could be.
SPEAKER_01:It's a different movie, but it's great. Like it's just because it's a melancholy romantic comedy, kind of in a way. Like that's the what and that's because when I first was watching it, I got to the point where they switched. And I thought I was like, is this is this is this the movie that we're is this movie within a movie, like, is it a bad romantic comedy? Like, I I I was like, I think I was so the switch was so jarring for me that I didn't know what I was getting into. But as it went on, I just I discovered that I really liked it. And on the second rewatch, knowing it's coming right at the midway point, is when they switch, um, but which I think is pretty brilliant, uh, I understood it fully that this kind of art, um, the way they make their art is a way that they are trying to process their feelings, their emotions, their history. Um, and even Tim Ross's character talks in his little Q ⁇ A.
SPEAKER_03:I felt like I was um on a tightrope, you know, I was that I was kind of balancing. And uh if I fell, if I fell off, I just I'd be lost, I'd be completely gone. And so as a filmmaker, I only really felt um uh secure, I suppose, and and comfortable if the central character of this of the story that I was telling at that particular time was um female.
SPEAKER_00:This film does deal with like some serious dark stuff, but somehow it always feels cute and just happy that you agree with that, or just it's like this really cute movie, but like at one point the film within the film does get super dark at one point, or at least Chris hints she might end it in this really dark, heavy she hasn't settled on an ending yet, and um I like the fact you use the word jarring because um they're doing that film, and then suddenly Tim receives a phone call, and that yeah, like because you almost forget that other story, yeah, and it's only when uh Tony's phone goes off. Um also that's like the strongest hint that their relationship isn't as cute as it actually seems because she's like pouring out her heart creatively, trying to say, is my new screenplay any good or not? And he keeps taking phone calls, yeah. Even as she gets to like the darkest part, and she's like, I don't know how to end this.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, look at something long enough it becomes interesting, right? Somebody said that. Thanks. And it's good that you're focusing on a three-day period, you've never done that before. You just have to find your rendering.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, but I can't. So can you help me?
SPEAKER_03:I doubt you. And I don't think I'm the person to be discussing this with you.
SPEAKER_05:Why not?
SPEAKER_01:Why do you think? Which I'm like, I don't I actually don't know how to take that. Like, I don't, I didn't know uh because on surface level, it felt dismissive. Like he didn't want to, he didn't want to help her. But yeah, the more the more I look into it, it feels kind of like true. Like if she is trying to tell a story and go through her own process, and even though she she doesn't like the writing process, like she said that she just I she's like, I this is torture for me. But I mean, for me, I feel like that's you can have people who are sounding boards, and that's kind of what he's doing, but from an advice standpoint, like he's not really giving anything. And I kind of I kind of see what he's saying. Like, if I'm you know, if any filmmaker is trying to or any artist is trying to put themselves out on uh their page or through the speakers or up on the screen, like only they're the ones who can really figure out what they're trying to say, but at the same time, it's super disheartening when you want guidance, but the guidance is do it yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I took it as, yeah, on one hand it seems super unsupportive and rude, and then on the other hand, I guess he feels like too close. I don't know, too close as in he sees himself in the film. I I more think because they they are so close as a couple, they spend all their time together. Yeah. And the fact he's maybe thinks because he is a writer himself, maybe he's not the right person to fully influence the ending.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, maybe, but I also think about it if if the story she's telling is actually based on their past, then that's why he can't provide her feedback is because it's about her.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it's so ambiguous. I it's hard to tell how long they've actually been in a relationship. It's like based on Miohanov used to um, I don't think they got married, but she had a long-term relationship with Olivier Assayas. I hope I'm saying that close to right. The French director. Have you seen Personal Shopper, for example? With Kristen Schwartz?
SPEAKER_01:No, I know of it, but I have not seen it.
SPEAKER_00:Again, and it's so weird how this all keeps connecting to films I considered doing this podcast episode. Personal Shopper was a really strong contender.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:As well. So he directed that film and quite a few other movies. Um they were in a relationship, and so I think in the film within the film, Anders Danielson Lee's character says, I saw your movie.
SPEAKER_02:Oh you know that guy. Wait, which guy?
SPEAKER_01:The one who plays me.
SPEAKER_02:Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:What about?
SPEAKER_01:I'm much better.
SPEAKER_05:Really? In what ways? In all departments.
SPEAKER_00:So again, that's blurring the lies beyond the entire film itself. That's also based on the fact she based this film on a real-life relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Right after the movie was over, I looked up that I had the location right because they had um they were pronouncing Faro Faro different than you know, I do in my in my American English accent. So I was looking to make sure that I had the right place in mind. And I put Bergman's name also in the search description, and the first thing that pops up is the Bergman Institute. And I was like, sweet. So I checked it and I was like, oh, that building is in this movie, that building is in this movie. And I was it made me, I was like, maybe I want to go there, like oh shit, some kind of weird residency, like trying to say, hey, yeah, I'm just uh I'm just a guy with a movie podcast gonna come and just hang out.
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, and that's one of the super meta bits where Anders Danielson Lee, he's a character in the film of in the film, and then he plays himself.
SPEAKER_05:Hi Anders. Hi Chris. For a second I didn't know where I was, everything was mixed up.
SPEAKER_02:The crew left, so I thought you'd gone to.
SPEAKER_05:I was tired. I I needed to lie down.
SPEAKER_00:Him and uh Vicky Creep's character in Bergman's actual house. Yeah, yeah, that get that gets that stretches your brain a bit when it's like, oh now he's playing himself. What the hell?
SPEAKER_01:I thought that was a that was a really good transition. I think I applauded it this first the second time because I knew physically um yeah, it was I was like, oh, she just like kind of dozes off for a second, comes back up, and it's it's glad you touched on that. Still her, still her, still in the building, but now he's here. Is he a part of her imagination? No, this is the actual we've actually jumped forward in time for however many years.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, she has that nap, and my reading was she'd just been saying prior to that how she couldn't find an ending.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think if I'm I've if I correct me if I'm wrong, she wakes up for the nap and then it goes into the like the rap party. So I think it's kind of like saying her the act of her sleeping in Bergman's real life house, that's where it clicks for her and she knows how to end the movie. Similar to how Mia Hansen Love said, that was how the film finally happened, her visiting the stuff on this island, Bergman's like real life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I like that this is like because some meta movies are just so obnoxious. And as much as I love them, like sometimes I love, yeah, let's let's get up our own ass about things. Like, let's let's be let's be absurd, let's be obnoxious, and sometimes I can sit there and be like, that was so cool the way they did that. But this one, it's it's just such a sweet, cute, chill movie to then execute something like this pretty flawlessly is pretty dope.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Because I keep using the word meta a lot. I don't think I ever thought of it as meta the first time. I didn't really look at it that way. It's it's more as I've gone into this like analysis mode of watching it. So I almost want to stop saying meta in case it puts people up. I think we're agreeing you can watch it and not see it that way at all. You you you could weirdly enough, you could almost watch this like an MCU movie. You could still turn off your brain and just enjoy the film on its own terms and not I don't think you have to think about it too much.
SPEAKER_01:Um no, you can you can you can vibe out with this movie, like you can just chill and just be carried away with what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00:I agree with what you're saying in the sense that it's not one of those films where you're like we can tell you're trying to be better. Yeah, just take take it down a few notches. Yeah. No, because I just find this film so goddamn relaxing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00:If I wanted to relax, yeah, because she she was involved with a director, you know, that whole um I don't know if you've dated a someone who's equally creative to you and had that kind of you know unspoken creative rivalry. I think that's what she's getting. I think I I that's something I really think she's guessing at in this film.
SPEAKER_01:If two creatives get into a serious relationship and the potential pitfalls, yeah, yeah, what that is like, because you know, they had all those discussions about um, you know, Bergman made all these movies but wasn't really at home to be a dad, or can't can you do both? Like what you know, what is the what is the trade-off? What are the capabilities of each individual person? So I think that that's definitely yeah, that's definitely at the core of this is what is a relationship like when two people are driven creatively but just have different approaches and personal tastes.
SPEAKER_00:And the really spooky thing, I just before I came to do this podcast of you, I was in town and there's this trumpeter playing the winner takes it all by ever that's prominently using this movie, and I was like, that is spooky as hell. That is a sign.
SPEAKER_01:That is an absolute sign you were supposed to be on this podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Something at the center of Adam's affection for Bergman Island is also at the heart of this show. It's about learning and sharing our love of what we watch. It's both education and appreciation. And as I wind down the fifth season of this show, I mean, I can't believe I've done five of these. I want us all to keep that idea in mind. We should grow with our tastes. We change, adapt, learn, and love. Now I'm not saying we need to go out and get that stitch on a throw pillow, but I hope it's a reminder nonetheless. In the meantime, until this show comes back in whatever form it might take, I want us all to keep watching, recommending, and spreading the good word of film and television. And of this podcast too, if you'd like. A huge thanks to Adam for joining me today, all the way from England, and a tour bus-sized thank you to all of y'all for joining us today as well, and for all the previous episodes up to this point. Please go follow Adam Pratz on your favorite music platform. He's got a new single coming out on November 1st, appropriately titled 111. Over across the pond, that's how they keep track of month and date. So please go check it out. I think you'll really dig his music. If you enjoyed the show today or at any other time, please go ahead and subscribe to stay up to date with all of our episodes so you don't miss a single one. And if you happen to be listening to this on Apple Podcasts, please, pretty please, leave a rating and review. That helps us get noticed by more awesome people like yourself. My voice is starting to give out, that's weird. If you are really loving this show, based on this episode or anything in the past, please consider becoming a patron of the Film Nuts Podcast. There's lots of cool stuff in it for you. And for more information on that, check out patreon.com slash filmnuts or head to the show notes for a link. Our theme this season was brought to us by J Mac. Our artwork is designed by Madungo Stubuhuri, and all episodes of the Film Nuts Podcast are produced and edited by me, Tao D. Adams. If you want to get in touch, you can email filmnutspodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Instagram and TikTok at FilmNutsPodcast. And don't forget to join the Nut House Discord community, absolutely free. It's a ton of fun. There's a bunch of TV and film lovers in there, and even when the show isn't in season, we're hanging out, we're watching movies together every Monday, and right now we're in the middle of preseason, so that's fun. So please, it'd be lovely if you joined us there. Once again, thank you all so much for joining us today. And if you've been joining us since the beginning, I really extremely appreciate it. Um, ending the fifth season is kind of wild. I didn't know if I would be doing this for five seasons. Um, I'm looking forward to the future. I'm looking forward to all of you joining us in that future. Um, but until next time, safe travels, and we'll see you in the sequel. Take care.